In the real world

ebsbury said:

Carbonfibre said:

[quote="The fact that other than Mead and Tomkinson modified A65 BSA twins, no Brit bikes were worthy of mention in this form of racing, is certainly reflective of their longevity on the road if ridden hard.

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I think you mean the Mead & Tomkinson B44/B50 singles which were successful in the Barcelona 24hrs in the early 1970s. Why is that more significant than the victories by Commandos in the Thruxton 500 - the pre-eminent UK endurance event in the same period?

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splatt said:

The fact that other than Mead and Tomkinson modified A65 BSA twins, no Brit bikes were worthy of mention in this form of racing, is certainly reflective of their longevity on the road if ridden hard.

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Matt Spencer said:

The RCB Honda endurance thingo was basically a twin cam in a near DOMIRACER ( 1961 NORTON ) Frame . the ' Bol dor ' wasnt, really .

Can get a 1100 KZ shaft drive , for 1500 , which I thought was a bit steep . Do the Chain Drive bits bolt on , or do you need a disc grinder , C.F. ? ?
Mightnt be a bad idea , could probly swap it for a decent bike , the KZ seems fairly oilly ,outside . At least its stopped it RUSTING . :lol: :lol: :wink:

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splatt said:

http://www.sdmcc.net/history/results.html makes for interesting reading, 74 Thruxton race was won by one of those evil handling Kaw triples, and 73 was the last time any Brit bike finished top 3 at Thruxton................seems very strange as the Commando must have been far superior to Jap rubbish like Honda RCB etc etc.............

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Matt Spencer said:

Indeed , the BSA was basically a B50 MX . GOLD STAR . Unit !

The mags in the day had articals on where to weld in a few pair of tube ' triangulation ' braces to the Z1s ,
and go over the welds , and throw a few extrta gussets in . To tame , not ' perfect ' the WOBBLES . :shock:

Was standard practise on the Yoshimura's , the Aus or Kiwi Mag also had a ' How To ' BRACE the Frame artical .
Alledgedly the ones in the cult wierdo ' STONE ' movvie were done thus .
Though in the scene where he ' lays down ' the Commando , you can pick its deliberate , AND he's cornering
visably faster than the Kwacker siki's that are pulling away from him . How Unusual . Just Like C H I P S .
Thats ' the movies ' for you .

The pommy enduro suckers are on the link above .

XT 650s , ended up in gutters trying to stay with Triumphs at CRUISEING speeds , in the sticks . Even old 50s ones .
Some morons thought Mitsubushi V 3000 V^ front wheel drive were remarkeable cars . An idiot from the city thought it impressive one hadnt been able to get near his Commando when it was stolen . Itd probably keep up with a XS 650 the
same morons thpought excellent .A push bike would out corner one down hill . Most sane people would fall over laughing.
Unfortunately , the traffic patrols had them and thought anything that didnt go of the road under brakeing was dangerous .

The 1951 Rover 75 was considerably more competant and manouvreable than a CB 500 or KZ 750 at speed . It payed to
leave the rice burners a bit of road as they were prone to be unpredictable approaching the limits , were a evolved design of known parantage could well maintain its balance and poise if unleashed .

Provided no incompatants had been near it with a spanner .

Thruxton being an airfield tends to be fairly flat and smooth . The did well in the I.o.M. that year , no doubt , why even a mankey TR 750 lost to the F1 Commando . :lol: :shock:

Honda developed the Bol Dor 900 from their Endurance Race Specials . Com Star wheels ! :shock:
Brother the Aircraft Mechanic , MX maniac ( you land on the third whoop right , and then the fifth , stadium style ) employee of several motorcycle outfits as wrench ( Ft Lb calibrated fingertips . NEVER use a Tourque Wrench . Theyre too inaccurate )Starting with Comunist Bonnevilles and Ducati bevels , later all the big aussie rice burners and all else besides ,
Maniac seweed ( surfer " ah a storm , wheres my surfboard , theyrell be some good waves ' ) Mechanic at Vinsons Suzuki in the GSX era , thought the 900 Bol Dor he ran in aus , reliable , but it doesnt handle .2nds and 3rds raceing against RG 500s on the 1100 Katana , though he tended to keep the wheels on the deck , with that . His opinion confirmed what any observer who wasnt preoccupied with chassis misdemeanours in bends had wittnessed, even from a ROVER . ! :lol:

Leading as to the ' CB 1100 R ' :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock: :wink: I think even honda were embarresed about that one. Carved one up on the T100R triton . Poms tried to convince people they were marvellous , as did the MD of Honda NZ.
Nobody believed him.
He learned to keep quiet .
Unlike the V 3000 crowd .
Theyd all be melted down now .
Only problem is , the barsterum keep remoulding them into new and wonderous rice burners and sending them back for gullible people to spend the hard erned missgotten gains on .

Have they used all the real steel in england , or is there some left for US .

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Matt Spencer said:

http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/14/50/83/33/1976_l10.jpg

Right . Shes just about standard . Grow a brain cell .

Raceing is cubic dollars . the asians were paying by then .

Its obvious the tur*s were at the pub more than on the spanners , they needed bikes that came in the cornflakes by that era.

Never realised the hideous barges of excess eleves were the creme de la creme .The one the Commando matched after
the Commando was detuned ended up haveing the engine fall out after it hit a kerb in the wet , slideing out on the road
slime through a intersection . Was still on H.P. after two years .

I think the only thing running on Alcohol is carbon .

Id say M.M.s 12.2 for a Combat on 19 T isnt too far off . If they knew how to ride .

The average pillock never realised a tecnique was required to get the throttle on the stop on a Commando .
And as for Z1s , there about as fast as a worked 650 Bonneville , and steer comparrably to the 1961 version.
A lot better than a XT 650 .
If you hear a twin & it sounds like its doing 90 , look and its doing 45 . ITs a Yamaha . Grow Up . :roll:

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Matt Spencer said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8b6r3B8dr0

What ever will they think off next . :shock: :?

" The REAL WORLD " to a out of towner , is mud tracks , gravle roads , milk tankers and cattle trucks , straying stock, etc .

The Relevance of optimum drag times isnt quite of prime consideration . Though tecnique is optimised if evadeing
thugs hoodlums and theives in ' the big smoke ' .
The relevancy of a NON road ' race course ' is somewhat remote , though the sanctioned ' Road Course ' on a few of the seasons meetings are . Noteably the whiners petition the Councils to remove the bumps and irregularites the transverse
fours find so difficult to deal with . . . .

No longer ' Real world ' then . . . Obviously .

The main problem of the British industry was Shoddy Workmanship , lack of attention to detail . I would have said .
But Generall Shoddyness and conciet could be construed as a national characteristic , among others , unless the situation
DEMANDS selfless dedication . Such as in the Battle of Britain , though most of the pilots were forigners . . .

Brothers tenure as M'Cycle Mech had " they ALL have four to Six FAULTS " regarding the Meirdan left foot Triumphs .
On the Dealer ' pre sale ' inspection and set up . Had a few blow ups , Autopsy reavealed incorrect Crank Machineing or
incorrect rod bolt fitting , so warrenty was honoured , rather than ' Blame the Rider ' .
Just minor nigling things due to lack of attention to detail " As if they Didnt Care " . Time consumeing nevertheless .

Two to Four hours Charge Out , as once youd found a few wierd irregularities on one , you start to get concerned that
it was the general theme on that one , and have to go over it very thoroughly. " Almost as if theyd sabotaged some of them "

The Ducati ( bevel ) riders would go there for ' Free Advice ' as to what parts to get , from the distributor . As the bits were cheap . Mix'n' match , you could make something ut of one . Ducati paid attention to machineing quality , but you got what you were given , as far as a new bike went . There was room for improvement & updates in the secification of minor items that payed dividends as far as reliability and performance went .You got what you paid for , a lot of Potential .And several
rough edges , cosmetically .

The Average entusiast In N.Z. would check his machine ( Norton ) after serviceing .One bloke I met sayed he'd set it ALL
spot on before service . ( Dealer for New Bike Warrenty ) Two Hours work after collecting , as it came back with Near Everything ( everything theyd done ) maladjusted .

Moral ? Do it yourself or get a Aircraft Mechanic if you must . But it wont go right if the Mechanic Doesnt give a Sh:t .

And if they insist on paying the workers less than they can reasonably live on , there minds NOT going to be on the job ,
or there state of mind conductive to good workmanship .The majority of machines made in the 50s were to a somewhat
more faultless standard .

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splatt said:

The main problem the British bike industry had was designs that were even in the 70s forty years out of date, which resulted in them continually increasing the capacity of the bikes based on the 40 year old designs, which had the effect of increasing vibration and decreasing reliability. The Japanese had brand new designs, which made for fast reliable machines, that were so popular in the main US market that sales of the Brits were greatly affected, which meant it was almost inevitable that they would fail.

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