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He stated 25 mph, but thought he was gaining speed - could have been higher. Certainly fast enough to do this damage.

The way what’s left of the upper steering stem has reacted to the failure/ heat generated(?) looks more like ally to me. Could be wrong - often am!

Some manufacturers use ally for steering stems as I understand it. Correct grade, suitably heat treated it can be almost as strong as steel. As high in tensile/ shear strength though? Lot lighter obviously.

Might Solihull be using ally? One of our SP members should be able to tell us - ye olde magnet trick perhaps, or a scratch test?

IMG_1190.jpeg
 
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But what where the symptoms for him to use a drive to get off the road? the resulting damage is pretty hard to assess post accident to determine what was the initial cause.
 
Madnorton said:
But what where the symptoms for him to use a drive to get off the road? the resulting damage is pretty hard to assess post accident to determine what was the initial cause.
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He mentioned a slippery road and not wanting to use the brakes. Odd as they are ABS.

Then he has made cryptic comments relating to idle speed problems and the fact he was relying on engine braking.

All very odd, cryptic and vague.

If he knows something else happened, he should say so. The freakin t’internet is bad enough without innuendo and insinuation like this !
 
Might have just been target fixation. Happens on the track too. Rider gets way out of shape, then sees a dangerous object in his path and becomes fixated on avoiding it. But the mind is a strange device. It will fixate on the object and unconsciously steer the rider into the object. Once you sense the fixation, you have to immediately break it, and look away for a way to avoid contact. If you're freaking out at the time, you may not be able to snap out of it in time.
BANG!

I still don't like the idea of an aluminum steering stem, call me old fashion. Don't tell me it was to save weight. On a 500+lb modern classic? It was to save on cost of course. 180 miles on the bike, it's a shame.
 
BritTwit said:
Might have just been target fixation. Happens on the track too. Rider gets way out of shape, then sees a dangerous object in his path and becomes fixated on avoiding it. But the mind is a strange device. It will fixate on the object and unconsciously steer the rider into the object. Once you sense the fixation, you have to immediately break it, and look away for a way to avoid contact. If you're freaking out at the time, you may not be able to snap out of it in time.
BANG!

I still don't like the idea of an aluminum steering stem, call me old fashion. Don't tell me it was to save weight. On a 500+lb modern classic? It was to save on cost of course. 180 miles on the bike, it's a shame.
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Well, you better tell most of the manufacturers not to use alloy then because most do. They are plenty strong enough in 6061, and if you look at Harley, with the 1000 lbs bike plus two riders, it supports plenty with no shear.

This whole thing is a simple accident at what appears to be a moderate speed where the rider couldn't control his motorcycle for the conditions. Lets not give it any more airspace than it needs because its going to turn into a "my steering stem is cracked" thread and way down the rabbit hole we go.
 
The reason the subject still has traction (on FB at least) is that some are voicing concern that the steering stem failed in some way - that there is a significant issue here that other SP owners may need to be concerned about.

Agreed on face value it just looks like an unfortunate accident however, the detail has been muddied by the inference that he might not be solely at fault (for accident/outcome), for various reasons. Further, he mentions Norton/dealer(?) attempts to view the bike were too little, too late, not appropriate, which feeds that narrative.

He may be reluctant to provide more detail because there’s something ongoing with Norton/ insurance. If so, he might have been better not posting at all until it played out. The rabbit hole is open - doubt many will choose to go down it though.

Looks like a simple accident to me, but who knows - doubt we’ll ever get full detail. Interesting about the ally steering stems. Didn’t realise they were so widely used.
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
The reason the subject still has traction (on FB at least) is that some are voicing concern that the steering stem failed in some way - that there is a significant issue here that other SP owners may need to be concerned about.

Agreed on face value it just looks like an unfortunate accident however, the detail has been muddied by the inference that he might not be solely at fault (for accident/outcome), for various reasons. Further, he mentions Norton/dealer(?) attempts to view the bike were too little, too late, not appropriate, which feeds that narrative.

He may be reluctant to provide more detail because there’s something ongoing with Norton/ insurance. If so, he might have been better not posting at all until it played out. The rabbit hole is open - doubt many will choose to go down it though.

Looks like a simple accident to me, but who knows - doubt we’ll ever get full detail. Interesting about the ally steering stems. Didn’t realise they were so widely used.
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Indeed. Innuendo and insinuation.

My take is that he’s blaming the high idle as he was trying to engine brake and mentions something about possibly speeding up etc.

If true I’m not sure where this goes, at the end of the day if he wasn’t slowing done as intended he should have used his brakes. The brakes have ABS… the engine doesn’t… so his brakes were the safer option irrespective.

If this is his argument, I suspect it will be a long fight.

As you say though, many have instead gone down the stem failure rabbit hole. Which I find odd after the dude (belatedly) admits to having hit a tree at 25mph!

But when you post dramatic pictures with deliberately unclear text on t’internet… waddya expect ??

Anyway, it’s clear what really happened… the bike suddenly idled so high that the bike accelerated massively, causing rapid forward progress and a huge wheelie. He then hit a small tree at great speed, whilst the bike was almost vertical in mid wheelie. The tree then caused the bike to suddenly stop, slamming the front wheel into the ground so hard that the (too weak because it’s made out of cheese) steering stem broke. Obvious really.
 
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Irrespective of what speed, material etc, there is always going to be a weak point - trying to calculate where that will be on the front end is nigh on impossible due to fork compression during braking and any braking if at all at the point of potential impact, do you want the stanchions to fold, the spindle or its mounting holes / caps, headstock, yokes etc to fail, in this case it just looks like the weakest point is the stem or yokes experiencing forces they were not designed to take.
Yes, you can use aluminium as stem, but for the weight saving over steel and fatigue life it does not make sense, steering geometry would also have an effect on the choice as well - there should be no weight on the stem itself, even when you brake, but there will be a twisting action on the headstock as it tries to over take the front wheel during braking.
From the damage it is hard to see if the stem has failed - unlikely, or the bearing seating areas above and below the inner race on the yokes - more than likely.
 
If somehow the steering stem broke before and thus causing the accident, then surely the headstock would not be so distorted around the bearing seat? IMO its clearly rider error, perhaps due to riding a new bike that he was still getting used to, perhaps riding in wet conditions for the first time. His comment about a bend ahead 'looking slippery', so decided to avoid it by turning into a private drive instead where he hit a tree, sounds very odd.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
If somehow the steering stem broke before and thus causing the accident, then surely the headstock would not be so distorted around the bearing seat? IMO its clearly rider error, perhaps due to riding a new bike that he was still getting used to, perhaps riding in wet conditions for the first time. His comment about a bend ahead 'looking slippery', so decided to avoid it by turning into a private drive instead where he hit a tree, sounds very odd.
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My 2016 961 had a clonking noise from the headstock. I knew what it was but it was a bit of a struggle to get the dealer to accept this. Four thousand miles only!
Norton gave permission to renew bearings and any spacers etc.
What could have happened if left to develop?
 
MAK said:
My 2016 961 had a clonking noise from the headstock. I knew what it was but it was a bit of a struggle to get the dealer to accept this. Four thousand miles only!
Norton gave permission to renew bearings and any spacers etc.
What could have happened if left to develop?
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Your steering would have gotten worse before a shear event The bearing would fail before the stem. Also, why this is part of motorcycle maintenance.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
If somehow the steering stem broke before and thus causing the accident, then surely the headstock would not be so distorted around the bearing seat? IMO its clearly rider error, perhaps due to riding a new bike that he was still getting used to, perhaps riding in wet conditions for the first time. His comment about a bend ahead 'looking slippery', so decided to avoid it by turning into a private drive instead where he hit a tree, sounds very odd.
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Agreed, that is a classic sign of front-end impact. Bikes that have beefier heads typically the fork tubes will bend . Go to any motorcycle salvage yard and look at all the front wheels tucked in from similar accidents. Kinetic energy is a bitch. The bike weight(plus fuel) plus rider weight come to a sudden stop.

This whole thing is attention seeking at best.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
The reason the subject still has traction (on FB at least) is that some are voicing concern that the steering stem failed in some way - that there is a significant issue here that other SP owners may need to be concerned about.

Agreed on face value it just looks like an unfortunate accident however, the detail has been muddied by the inference that he might not be solely at fault (for accident/outcome), for various reasons. Further, he mentions Norton/dealer(?) attempts to view the bike were too little, too late, not appropriate, which feeds that narrative.

He may be reluctant to provide more detail because there’s something ongoing with Norton/ insurance. If so, he might have been better not posting at all until it played out. The rabbit hole is open - doubt many will choose to go down it though.

Looks like a simple accident to me, but who knows - doubt we’ll ever get full detail. Interesting about the ally steering stems. Didn’t realise they were so widely used.
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He should be embarrassed that he didn't post what really happened. There isn't a blind insurance adjuster that would believe this just "happened" without, you know, the running into the tree thing. Blaming high idle when pulling the clutch in solves that issue. Engine braking on wet surfaces is always a good idea, no matter the vehicle, but more so on a motorcycle. What's next? let's blame the owner of the private drive? The more and more this sounds like whiskey throttle and failure to control his motorcycle for the conditions.
 
It’s official, he’s blaming the high idle:

“I was going about 20 mph and trying to engine brake but dodgy idling was impeding engine braking”.

So, instead of using his anti lock brakes through fear of skidding… he rode into a tree.

And it’s the bikes fault.

Obviously…
 
Fast Eddie said:
It’s official, he’s blaming the high idle:

“I was going about 20 mph and trying to engine brake but dodgy idling was impeding engine braking”.

So, instead of using his anti lock brakes through fear of skidding… he rode into a tree.

And it’s the bikes fault.

Obviously…
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Yep, as I said, engine braking on wet surfaces is always a good idea... I'm fearful that more and more new riders will be like this.
 
Not yet.
I actually sat on a bike at a dealer that had a set fitted.
A Ducati Supersport 1000DS, and they really made a huge difference over the stock clip-ons.
They were the Multiclip version with 70mm extendable rise.
Beautifully made, and strong. No slop or movement in them.
The only thing that put me off was the need to extend the electric control, and hydraulic lines.
Got really lazy lately, and didn't want to spin any wrenches.
I think for me, I would only need about 1.5" (38mm) rise to make the CR riding position acceptable.
That would be smack in the middle of the adjustable range, and would preserve most of the Cafe appearance.
May be a spring 2025 tune-up item. Might take it to a shop.
But, definitely an improvement for a Geezer with a CR.:p
 

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