EV drawbacks

daveforty said:

I have been on these busses, and in the North Woolwich area - my work sometimes took me that way. The busses pull away from the bus stop on the electric motor, the diesel engine then starts once the bus is moving.

The authorities in London have become very keen on emissions control, maybe not unreasonably - London is very congested and the air can be badly polluted, largely with diesel fumes. I would guess that the purpose of these types of bus is to prevent an idling engine from generating exhaust fumes while people get off & on the things. And that a diesel engine probably outputs an extra amount of exhaust when pulling a vehicle away from the bus stop, so starting on the electric motor avoids that. London busses may stop and start every 100yds or so.

Some years ago one particularly stupid London politician wanted to do away with double decker busses, and they were replaced with 'bendy busses'. These were extra long, like a coach with a trailer, and were diesel powered. they were withdrawn from use ~20 years ago when they had a propensity for bursting into flames, so its not just an electric vehicle thing.

Articulated buses in London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'Bendy buses' withdrawn after fires

The entire fleet of London's controversial "bendy buses" was taken off the streets today for urgent modifications.

www.theguardian.com

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Biodiesel.

concours said:

Biodiesel.

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I am inclined to think that fields should be used to grow crops for humans (or livestock) rather than diesel engines. Unless growing a 'fuel' crop could be part of a crop rotation cycle.

But there was a recent report about a company in the UK who can create aviation fuel from human waste. Which is something we're not short of...

daveforty said:

I am inclined to think that fields should be used to grow crops for humans (or livestock) rather than diesel engines. Unless growing a 'fuel' crop could be part of a crop rotation cycle.

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Can't be crop rotation, as corn for ethanol is VERY similar to corn used for human consumption. So, rotating from one to the other would not change the consumption of the soil's nutrients (unless I'm WAY off-base)...

Years ago, in the 70's, I read a NASA tech report regarding a pilot plant (an actual functional test model ) that took the effluent water from a municipal sewage treatment plant somewhere in Tennessee, ran that effluent into troughs in which water hyacinths were established. The hyacinths grew profusely on the nutrient rich water, and the biomass was converted into methanol. At the same time, the nutrients in the water, and the volume of water as well, that eventually made its way down stream was reduced , reducing algae pollution in lakes down stream.

Thus this system literally turned sh*t into energy, protecting the environment as well.

Why has it not been developed further? My guess..... follow the money......

Slick

grandpaul said:

Can't be crop rotation, as corn for ethanol is VERY similar to corn used for human consumption. So, rotating from one to the other would not change the consumption of the soil's nutrients (unless I'm WAY off-base)...

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With the exception of sweet corn, the corn products we eat are processed from the same corn used for ethanol. Around my area of the US we grow corn and soy beans. Our crop rotation is beans one year and corn the next. In full disclosure, I’m not a farmer. I just married the farmers daughter.

daveforty said:

I am inclined to think that fields should be used to grow crops for humans (or livestock) rather than diesel engines. Unless growing a 'fuel' crop could be part of a crop rotation cycle.

But there was a recent report about a company in the UK who can create aviation fuel from human waste. Which is something we're not short of...

Firm develops jet fuel made entirely from human poo

Scientists have found a way to make jet fuel from human sewage and cut carbon emissions.

www.bbc.co.uk

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You missed my point.

"I have been on these busses, and in the North Woolwich area - my work sometimes took me that way. The busses pull away from the bus stop on the electric motor, the diesel engine then starts once the bus is moving. "

Switching to biodiesel only during the bus stop would treat the passengers, and others to the smell of french fries, instead of the acrid smell of burning electrical components.

Without the ridiculous redundancy /COST!!! of TWO propulsion systems.

Not sure I did miss the point. Wiki suggests that there are 3835 hybrid busses in London, and that a hybrid bus has 40% less Co2 emissions than a diesel bus, so it seems worthwhile. Apparently a diesel bus does ~6mpg, so thats a lot of fuel burn with associated emissions.

edit; a bit more reading suggests Biodiesel is a bit of a vague term, it is a blend of plant derived oil and 'fossil fuel', and the ratios of plant derived oil and fossil fuel vary quite a lot.

It is a matter of 'horses for courses', a hybrid bus is good for stop start use in a congested city, probably rubbish for long journeys.

p.s. off topic, but 50odd years ago a friend had a Triumph 3TA. It broke down in London, near Victoria bus station. Helpful people allowed him to leave the bike in the bus garage, and we ( and our fathers ) went to collect it in the evening. A helpful bus driver said he would take us home, so we loaded the bike into the back of a Routemaster double decker bus and set off home in west London. Did get queried though, a bus inspector wondered why a double decker bus went down the Hanger Lane underpass (not a regular bus route) and followed us home, but was cool with it when he saw what we were up to.

No juice.
No heat.

Can someone explain this Tesla story to me please?

Not taking a charge when cold?

Is this true?

If so why?

And is it only Tesla’s ?

In my State we been having a lot of rain and roads flooding, lots of fools driving into flood water and getting stuck, the Gov has been putting ads on the TV telling people how dangerous it is driving into flood waters for a few years now but now they have a new one out involving an electric car and people trapped inside when the power goes out.
Many years ago when I was working at the Tec College a female teacher was driving home one night with her son in the car she crosses Youngs Crossing the road has two inclines on both side of a cause way when flooded they have locking gates to stop cars crossing when the water is up, well the gates were open and being night the head lights couldn't see the water over the cause way and the car hit it and got washed off the cause way into deep water and having electric windows they couldn't get out, the back window got forced out and she got forced out with the water but her son lost his life, was so sad and it can happen so quick with flash floods, he was 11 years old and only child.

Ashley

Fast Eddie said:

Can someone explain this Tesla story to me please?

Not taking a charge when cold?

Is this true?

If so why?

And is it only Tesla’s ?

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Richard Tool said:

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'

Many Chicago-area Tesla owners were visibly frustrated on Monday after their electric vehicles failed to charge amid freezing temperatures.

www.foxbusiness.com

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Yeah I’ve seen the headline… but we all know what headlines can be like… hence me wondering:

Is this true (ie is the story really as true as it appears, or are other factors in play? I’m struggling to understand why it’s only just come to light when these cars have been sold globally for some years now)

If so why (ie what is the actual issue)?

And is it only Tesla’s (ie is it only Tesla’s that are affected, or is it all EVs)?

Anyone seen the finished Triumph EV (EB) prototype?

Its the best looking EB IMO, actually difficult to tell apart from equivalent ICE Triumphs.

Weight is low and performance is good too.

But yet again… 100 mile max range !

Think about that, that means you can only go 50 miles from home and still get back.

And that assumes actually running flat as you arrive home, so realistically you’re gonna have to reduce that range by a chunk for safety.

And that’s the max range… it’s well accepted that range plummets drastically as the throttle increases, so a spirted ride is gonna be considerably less. And considering ‘spirited’ riding is the whole point of such rides, that’s significant and means another large chunk of range is gonna be lost.

So realistically, you’re gonna be limited to destinations around 30 miles from home I reckon.

This, as well as the infrastructure, has gotta be fixed before they can be taken remotely seriously…

Fast Eddie said:

Yeah I’ve seen the headline… but we all know what headlines can be like… hence me wondering:

Is this true (ie is the story really as true as it appears, or are other factors in play? I’m struggling to understand why it’s only just come to light when these cars have been sold globally for some years now)

If so why (ie what is the actual issue)?

And is it only Tesla’s (ie is it only Tesla’s that are affected, or is it all EVs)?

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The Tesla manual has a lot of info on dealing with ice on the exterior of the car (frozen door handles, iced up windows/mirrors etc), so does anticipate properly cold weather driving. It does recommend plugging the car in 30 - 45 minutes before travelling in very cold weather so that the battery can be preheated before leaving. It also recommends changing the drive setting to minimise the max acceleration, so that the car can prioritise heating over performance.
We don't get cold enough here for it to have shown but there is a blue snowflake symbol which shows in cold weather and notes the extent of range reduction - they of course don't mention whether that reduction might be 100%.
Having tried to elec start a bike which had a lithium battery and had sat outside overnight in sub zero temps (it didn't even go clunk) i can imagine if it were cold enough an EV might be stuck without external power. Hard to imagine that a supercharger (150kW) couldn't manage that.

Fast Eddie said:

Anyone seen the finished Triumph EV (EB) prototype?

Its the best looking EB IMO, actually difficult to tell apart from equivalent ICE Triumphs.

Weight is low and performance is good too.

But yet again… 100 mile max range !

Think about that, that means you can only go 50 miles from home and still get back.

And that assumes actually running flat as you arrive home, so realistically you’re gonna have to reduce that range by a chunk for safety.

And that’s the max range… it’s well accepted that range plummets drastically as the throttle increases, so a spirted ride is gonna be considerably less. And considering ‘spirited’ riding is the whole point of such rides, that’s significant and means another large chunk of range is gonna be lost.

So realistically, you’re gonna be limited to destinations around 30 miles from home I reckon.

This, as well as the infrastructure, has gotta be fixed before they can be taken remotely seriously…

Click to expand...

"to get the performance and range I need the technology is around 10 years away"


This is the most often repeated line of bullshit in the EV ruse.

There have been incremental improvements in batteries, by using exotic materials and very costly processes.

But.....

They are still STORAGE BATTERIES.

To carry the amount of energy needed to do the work for the needed range, isn't going to magically triple because some WANT IT TO BE.

Fast Eddie said:

Anyone seen the finished Triumph EV (EB) prototype?

Its the best looking EB IMO, actually difficult to tell apart from equivalent ICE Triumphs.

Weight is low and performance is good too.

But yet again… 100 mile max range !

Think about that, that means you can only go 50 miles from home and still get back.

And that assumes actually running flat as you arrive home, so realistically you’re gonna have to reduce that range by a chunk for safety.

And that’s the max range… it’s well accepted that range plummets drastically as the throttle increases, so a spirted ride is gonna be considerably less. And considering ‘spirited’ riding is the whole point of such rides, that’s significant and means another large chunk of range is gonna be lost.

So realistically, you’re gonna be limited to destinations around 30 miles from home I reckon.

This, as well as the infrastructure, has gotta be fixed before they can be taken remotely seriously…

Click to expand...

Again you are missing the point Eddie
It means you can travel up to 100 miles range if it's a warm day,no hills or traffic stop starting etc so let's say 70 miles ish
But the best bit is sitting for half an hour (fast charge) drinking your favourite Costa coffee with like minded people!!!
Then you can head home, recharge and relax
I'm sure this dystopian nightmare fills you with as much dread as it does me!

ntst8 said:

The Tesla manual has a lot of info on dealing with ice on the exterior of the car (frozen door handles, iced up windows/mirrors etc), so does anticipate properly cold weather driving. It does recommend plugging the car in 30 - 45 minutes before travelling in very cold weather so that the battery can be preheated before leaving. It also recommends changing the drive setting to minimise the max acceleration, so that the car can prioritise heating over performance.
We don't get cold enough here for it to have shown but there is a blue snowflake symbol which shows in cold weather and notes the extent of range reduction - they of course don't mention whether that reduction might be 100%.
Having tried to elec start a bike which had a lithium battery and had sat outside overnight in sub zero temps (it didn't even go clunk) i can imagine if it were cold enough an EV might be stuck without external power. Hard to imagine that a supercharger (150kW) couldn't manage that.

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The laws of physics will not aquiesce to the desires of anyone.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it can only change state.

THE FUTURE LOOKS BLEAK

KiwiShane said:

THE FUTURE LOOKS BLEAK

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So predictable, to realists.