Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Changed the mineral oil used to bed a new set of rings in: 400+ kms use.
As recommended (by experts), I sniffed the oil, prodded it with my finger (I cheated and wore a protective glove), disembowled the oil filter and sifted through the entrails. All to no avail - my best subjective assessment is that it is 400+ km used oil (just could not bring myself to howl at the midnight moon for greater enlightenment).
So, in 3000+ km I will send a sample of the synthetic oil now in my bike for objective assessment.
Ta.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Glad nothing to note in opening filter but you missed opportunity for real baseline data but hope its next check is boring as your alert on missed documentation.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

hobot said:

Glad nothing to note in opening filter but you missed opportunity for real baseline data but hope its next check is boring as your alert on missed documentation.

Click to expand...

Naw. Baseline on 400+km Valveline 20W50 oil has no relevance. I set that with the 3000+km Redline but must admit that I was curious as to what could be discovered if I were to follow 'advice' given in this thread. Seems nothing - it 'smelled', 'felt' and 'looked' like oil!
Ta.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Not to change the subject, but here's a used engine oil analysis for VR1 monograde.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae30 ... E25693.png

I had another one for Valvoline 20w50 motorcycle oil on bobistheoilguy.com, here it is:

http://s982.photobucket.com/user/ewgofo ... g.png.html

There's a little bit of discussion on that site of the results.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

i was reviewing Engine Masters recent few yrs contests, which is teeth gritting educational excitement/dissappointment with wear factors making or breaking power scores, to see one did analysis at 100 mile then 1000 mile equivilent to find about 10x the wear evidence on first test compared to following. I hope to analyze Peel a few times, first oil/filter change hopefully after a few dyno runs, then some learn curves less strained on/off road use, then after some event like drag, land speed or road race-hill climb to see how much metal and money I am wasting for fun.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Eric,

it looks like you've posted the same link for both oil tests. Both links go to your 850 oil test.

Interesting stuff, though.

Ken

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

lcrken said:

Eric,

it looks like you've posted the same link for both oil tests. Both links go to your 850 oil test.

Interesting stuff, though.

Ken

Click to expand...

Corrected the link. The oil sample for the Valvoline motorcycle oil multigrade seemed to have more zinc than the VR1 monograde. I asked the Valvoline people about this and they were surprised and wanted to know the batch numbers off the oil bottles, which were unfortunately long gone. The interesting thing to me was that the multigrade held it's viscosity very well. The SHORT for the flash point on the 20w50 indicates that they didn't get a large enough sample to make the test. I think I sent them 2 oz for that sample and 4 oz for the second. In the past, I've run a lot of Mobil 1 15w50 in this bike. I switched to conventional oil because I was changing it every 1200 miles anyway. It's interesting to compare my samples with Alan Goldwater's a few years ago.

-Eric

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Some owners will have oil filters fitted to the oil return thus unless everyone uses exactly the same filter Oil tsting is rather a waste of time...because.....no two different oil filters mad by different manufacturers will be the same . in the mid 1980s I went to the trouble of investigating Norton Commando type oil filters for use on our old overweight under powered and under braked so called classic (or crap as many describe it) racing Atlas.... or Atlast as we named her due to the time she took to build!
To start with I contacted the Chief Development Engineer at Crossland Filters Ltd who made the original oil filters for Norton and received a letter containing lots of data including a shorter Norton fitting filter that would suit our purposes but the advice was that to maintain FULL flow we should change it after every 200 miles use.
Later on I took 4 Norton fitting filters apart and had the filter elements tested. The results are shown below.
Filter Mean pore size (microns) Paper thickness mm. Paper area sq inches
Fram PH2964... 29.2 0.590 165
Wipac CA111.... 25.7 0.440 105
Crossland 673 27.8 0.530 153
TJLo94 26.6 0.720 144
and just for a laugh I had Trident joke of a filter checkd
Coopers Triumph 24.6 0.61 52

I have often wondered how many BSA / Triumph 3s spent most of their lives with totally blocked oil filters and only passing unfiltered oil through the by-pass..........
Incidentally the shorter filter was, in those long gone days of 1987, a Crossland 2030 which was 59mm long.

Clearly the Wipac filter should be changed at lower mileages than the others and, if memory is correct, with the recommended change mileages given for the Commando and BSA / Triumph 3s being the same...........

I wonder what Commando oil filters available these days are like ?

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Should just send in the whole filter full of oil and articles exist that mention not to send oil in thats been through the filter as skews some results. Normal filters are only intened to protect oil passages not friction areas same as fences keep cows in but not birds. If engine filter is actually filtering wear size crap then better change every few tanks of gas, other wise every few years when outside gets ugly,

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Bit late here, But when i ran a small truck i carried a spare diesel filter, what happened was the filter would block after a few thousand miles.
I cut a few open to find nothing that would cause it.
But paper filters will PLUG meaning the paper fibers swelled up ..whats in commando oil filters ?

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

john robert bould said:

what happened was the filter would block after a few thousand miles.
I cut a few open to find nothing that would cause it.
But paper filters will PLUG meaning the paper fibers swelled up

Click to expand...

I mechanicked on 8-12 big diesels and 4 small ones for 7 years and that never happened. Filters got water and rust and stuff that might have been road dust in them.

And air leaks into the filter casings weren't unknown.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

If the filer is actually doing much filtering of wear size particles vs ordinary oil filter passage clogging size then it should be a bypass type or serviced way sooner than normal semi effective engine filters. Many references can be found that state no need to change filters till several oil changes (after initial break in for oil passage protection and checking) but if the new Harley variety down to 10 mu then better change with oil for extended engine life. Thing is its tedious expensive to be consistent test disciplined and we do not know what the results really mean yet so would just make most of us more pensive ridding a good runner wondering if using up faster than expected to continue or not.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Okay I'll start.....

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

What did they charge for that service ?

Did you do or supply a sample of clean fresh oil to compare to ?

There is no mention there of carbon/soot particles.
Was your oil sample nice and crystal clear, or black and sooty....

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

Rohan said:

What did they charge for that service ?

Did you do or supply a sample of clean fresh oil to compare to ?

There is no mention there of carbon/soot particles.
Was your oil sample nice and crystal clear, or black and sooty....

Click to expand...

Fee schedule/options here: http://m.blackstone-labs.com/

No, their FAQ page mentions it here:
"Ok, now for the technical questions. What is a TBN?

A TBN (total base number) measures the amount of active additive left in a sample of oil. The TBN is useful for people who want to extend their oil usage far beyond the normal range. To learn more, click here.

Do I need to send in a separate sample for a TBN?

No. We can run your TBN on the same sample of engine oil you send. It's also not necessary to send in a sample of virgin oil for a TBN. You're welcome to do so, of course, and many people do this to see where the TBN starts out. If you do send in the virgin oil sample, the cost for that sample is the same as for your used engine oil sample."



Some darkening, but still translucent.

Re: Engine oil analysis reports for comparison and selection

mike996 said:

A one time oil analysis is useless and basically tells you nothing that you can RELIABLY use.

It is only useful, as noted, if it is done periodically using EXACTLY the same collection method and with the engine at the same temperature. Pulling a sample from the top of the oil sump can produce a different result than one pulled from the bottom. Pulling them at different engine temperatures can produce a different result. Pulling them at a different "time" after startup can produce a different result.

IOW, unless you do periodic, consistent checks as fleet operators do, it's a waste of time.

I have performed a ton of oil sample checks on marine engines and I can get you all sorts of different results on the same oil/engine on the same day, simply based on how I pull the sample and what state the engine is at the time.

But, like everything else, do whatever makes you comfortable. If you feel oil samples are useful to YOU, then they are.

Click to expand...

Please explain how the temperature of the engine when the oil sample is taken will effect the lab results. I'm stalled on that one.

Here is an example of a vehicle with a widely known (in the circle of enthusiasts) pattern failure, it began showing drivability symptoms. I used an oil sample to CONFIRM my suspicion, and pre-order parts, take the vehicle out of service and repair it on MY schedule (Sunday afternoon) and have it back in reliable service. Despite the lab's recommendation to keep running, I knew what was happening. AS OPPOSED TO, Opening the engine up, confirming the damage, ordering parts, and enduring significant down time. The oil analysis fee was the best money I could have spent. Camshaft, lifters, bearings all toast. :shock:

...and a few more tests since.

Anyone adding to the spintron with oil sample test results?