covenant kit?

READING ALL THESE POSTS REGARDING "COVENANT" KIT. EVERY ONE APPEARS TO BE CONCENED ABOUT THE BOTTOM AND TOPPING OUT WITH NORTON FORK'S. SURLY THIS TELL'S EVERY ONE THE DAMPER'S ARE NOT CONTROLING THE MIDRANGE. DURING FIRM BRAKING THE FORK SPRING IS "OVER COMPRESSED" SIMPLY BECAUSE THE STANDARD DAMPERS HAVE NO RESISTANCE ..IF THEY HAD THEN THE FORK WOULD BE "ALLOWED" LIMITED TRAVEL..AND MORE IMPORTANTLY ,LESS SPRING LOADING. THAT MEANS LESS REBOUND FORCE. THE LANSDOWNE KIT CONTROL'S THE ACTION GREATLY REDUCING THE EXCESSIVE MIDRANGE MOVEMENT,BY FINE ADJUSTABLE TUNING . EVERY ONE WHO AS FITTED THIS KIT REPORTS " SMOOTH,COMPLIENT ACTION" FOR ONCE. I HAVE TESTED THE COVENANT KIT,,,THE RESULTS IN THE MID RANGE..NO IMPROVEMENT ! OK THE LANSDOWNE KIT IS MORE EXPENSIVE, BUT MUCH LESS THAN OTHER'S. I HAVE HAD ONLY POSITIVE REPORTS...THESE WILL DELIGHT ! LUDWIG'S COMMENT " PRICE " SORRY BUT A INCREASE WILL BE MADE IN THE NEW YEAR APPROX 10%.

ludwig said:

The stiction problem is in the seals , not the bushings . Nylon Bushings ..?? The original oolite bushings are exellent .
Just make shure your stanchions aren't oversize ( or worse : undersize ).
I just bought 35 mm seals wich give much less stiction .
I also machine the bushing and seal retainer to accept a felt ring to protect the actual seal .
The original dust caps are great to keep the dirt IN , instead of out .

The topping out problem can easily be solved by making longer damper rods and fitting a spring .
( I'll se if I can post some pics )

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Ludwig — your solutions make a lot of sense. I would like to see how you machine the bushing and seal retainer to accept a felt ring, and also where to get such a felt ring. Does the 35mm pressure oil seal that you use have a different OD to the original seal? Dimensions for the above operation, if you have them, would be very handy. I fitted a short, light spring under the damper cap to reduce the clunk on topping out. It works quite well. However, the Landsdowne Kit sounds like the way to go. Agreed on the dust caps — I have gaiters. I look forward to seeing any pics you might have.

Dave

ludwig said:

the Landsdowne kit is the way to go .
( difficult to understand how he can make it for that money )

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Having just fitted one to my bike I can very strongly agree with this!
I won't be able to road test for a while, but it should be on its wheels this weekend - it'll be interesting to see how the adjustments work in the not-wholly-representative garage pogo test!
Incidentally, John recommended 180ccs of ATF.

B+Bogus said:

Having just fitted one to my bike I can very strongly agree with this!
I won't be able to road test for a while, but it should be on its wheels this weekend - it'll be interesting to see how the adjustments work in the not-wholly-representative garage pogo test!
Incidentally, John recommended 180ccs of ATF.

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Andy — please let us know the results of your road test of the Lansdowne Kit. By the way, I see you are located in the North West. I was sorry to hear about the very serious flooding in Cumbria.

HELLO WEIGHT FREAK...HOPE YOU HAVE A TITANIUM WHEEL SPINDLE WITH DURAL NUT'S

Ludwig — thank you very much for going to the trouble to post those photos and for providing the background information. My preferred option is the Lansdowne Kit, along with your modifications to reduce stiction. Has the seal retaining collar been recessed to accept the felt? It looks as if it has been retained with adhesive. Whatever way you've done it, it looks neat. I will be interested to hear how you get on with the 35 mm oil seals. My interest in using nylon fork bushes stemmed from a conversation with Maxton, which use them for its modified Roadholders. However, if I don't have to go to the trouble, so best.

Thanks again,

Dave

daveh said:

B+Bogus said:

Having just fitted one to my bike I can very strongly agree with this!
I won't be able to road test for a while, but it should be on its wheels this weekend - it'll be interesting to see how the adjustments work in the not-wholly-representative garage pogo test!
Incidentally, John recommended 180ccs of ATF.

Click to expand...

Andy — please let us know the results of your road test of the Lansdowne Kit. By the way, I see you are located in the North West. I was sorry to hear about the very serious flooding in Cumbria.

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I'll post my impressions as soon as.
although it truly pi**ed it down here (south of Lancaster), everything stayed clear apart from the usual blackspots. Lucky for me RGM were still delivering too

For the benefit of our international audience
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8389471.stm

daveh said:

Ludwig — thank you very much for going to the trouble to post those photos and for providing the background information. My preferred option is the Lansdowne Kit, along with your modifications to reduce stiction. Has the seal retaining collar been recessed to accept the felt? It looks as if it has been retained with adhesive. Whatever way you've done it, it looks neat. I will be interested to hear how you get on with the 35 mm oil seals. My interest in using nylon fork bushes stemmed from a conversation with Maxton, which use them for its modified Roadholders. However, if I don't have to go to the trouble, so best.

Thanks again,

Dave

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There is a nylon or teflon impregnated bushing off suzuki forks that will work for the bottom bush with a bit of machining. A friend does it to all of his Norton forks and reports back with nothing but good feedback. He was going to do the mod for me also but I was far too impatient to wait as I really wanted to get my forks back together. Maybe next time I have them apart I'll dig up the suzuki part and get him to machine the bottom of the stanchion for me.

I'll probably just end up getting a Lansdowne kit over the winter anyway.

As others have said, most of the stiction is probably coming from the seals and not bushings, unless you have a crappy pattern bushing kit like I fought with.

Ludwig...love your engineering, You should have said you hate weight...i can make the damper very , very light! Alloy bodie's, alloy valves.valve housings..extra thin piston rod..alloy needle , Titanium adjuster...300 grams tops, then p.t.f.e bush'e..Titanium [hollow] wheel spindle, dural nuts. ..Best regards John..Lansdowne Engineering

Stiction...very aware of this .. having a hour spare i have been reading through the posts on the forum. The issues regarding Stiction? I guess this means the restanace a body has to resist movement..Starting movement that is...Now as this is common to all static moving parts..and crops up on a regular basis. I suddenly had the need to fly off into the "shed" and assembly my new ebay stanchions into there yolks ,Hell aint nothing on my furry! So there they are , Nice and true? Er.. i said NICE and True!! No use nodding your grey matter box!! what the eye carnt see my 300mm vern will!! OK..lets have a measure..221.5 bottom and 220.7 under the top yolk...hang on this bleedin vern is faulty!! 221.49---220.7 carn't be right..thats a mile out!! Does this mean had i just thrown the forks together they would not be PARALLEL? and if i had what would this have done to increase stiction?...Going to remove the word stiction { i really hate that term!!] lets be blunt...BINDING. BINDING..and once more...BINDING...Now thats thats the correct term in the case of Forks...Just for the record..Imagin two blocks ground flat, placed on each other than jig bored in a controled tool room. the bores are going to be "Blind" on as we say...Now slide the stanshions into them.Great!!.Now measure the "Parallelness" They are going the be good..mayby .oo2 over there full length!...Now slide your spot on jig reamed sliders on, stick the wheel spindle in and nip up. Nice coat of oil..for a bit of stiction...Yes Stiction! We can use the term now,because there is no binding force's Now bolt the stanchions into a pair of real iffy yolks..like mine? Measure the error..0.8 mm !and bolt the spindle in...not feeling quite the same are they? BIT MORE STICKY! Thats because they are now BINDING!! So its knowing the differance..stiction or binding? But here is the good new's my cheepo chinese stan-chins are incorrect ..the top tapers are ground non-concentric..so i can revolve them improving matters a bit..Cleaver hey? and you where thinking the £59 was fool hardy?..so next time you rebuild your forks..{using the Lansdowne Kit!!] check out those yolks first.and if they are not "true"[Not in alignment}..NO NICE FORK ACTION..THAT IS FACT!!.Replie's welcome

John,

You've hit the nail on the proverbial!

My Triumph forks have always been smooth-acting (if not well-sprung :roll: ), and the wheel spindle positively locates the sliders parallel.
The Norton forks don't.
Ducati forks are the same, and it's become a ritual to tighten the spindle nut, and then jump up and down on the front end before tightening the pinch-bolt on the opposite side to ensure a smooth fork action.
I've been delayed in getting the wheels in the Norton, but the new tyres arrived this week, so maybe I'll finally get it on its wheels!

Nice one,,Preston awaits!!...pot hole's? show ya selves!!!

John — you made some very valid points and it behoves any of us that demand a good fork action to measure the distance between the stanchions as you have done, and I guess also to check if the stanchions are parallel in the fore and aft plane. Interesting that you found the tapers on the stanchions were not ground concentrically. I will do this at some stage over the winter, when I have the forks apart, and report back.

It was a lovely crisp, dry winter's day here in Dublin and I took the old Commando out for a scoot, the first after a month of crap weather. It's good to remind oneself how good these old dogs are to ride, and it's worth investing some time and money to fettle them.

Dave

Coco said:

There is a nylon or teflon impregnated bushing off suzuki forks that will work for the bottom bush with a bit of machining. A friend does it to all of his Norton forks and reports back with nothing but good feedback. He was going to do the mod for me also but I was far too impatient to wait as I really wanted to get my forks back together. Maybe next time I have them apart I'll dig up the suzuki part and get him to machine the bottom of the stanchion for me.

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Hi There,

Resuscitating an old thread here - Coco, can you possibly get me the information on these Suzuki bushings? I am very interested.

Thanks.

Kenny

ludwig said:

Fork seals , STD and 35 mm :

a fork seal 35 x 48 x 11 mm is not so uncommon : Yamaha , Marzocchi .. google it up .
I removed a little of the rubber coating , because I don't want to hammer it in .
( original is 47.7 mm , or so )
Much less stiction .Will it seal enough ? .. I'll soon find out !

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Ludwig — have you been able to discover if the 35 mm ID oil seal works?

Can I PM you about this?

Dave