certified quarter-mile time.

So its only Beurocracy and ignorance hat stopped us getting Hi Po 850s of the shelf . The Dreaded Asian Conspiracy . U.S. automotive legislation . . .

ON the VINCENT issue , just for the Rcord , BURNS Machine . Whilst assembling the motor for the Norvin , Young Len , Len Perry , the ' Vincent ' Agent for N.Z. ,
gave us the tirade on Burns . The other motor in the other Norton Vincent had been the Champion in the One Litre Hydroplane Raceing , a motor he'd built v Early 50's .
He was saying , somewhat miffed , He had build the Burns Wright Record Engine , as in ' was the ' Tuner ' ' . Being the Agent , distributor and likely the most experianced
mechanic on the suckers , not an Idle Boast . He was somewhat miffed that the bloke in interviews was infering he built the engine , when it was done gratis by Len .

Got a copy of the factory service bulliten , No 53 I think , on race preperation & fitting . If you require a copy . The Lightning spec build sheet basically & record prep .

Murray B said:

Matt Spencer said:

September 72 Two Wheels Mag. ( Australia ) had a 750 Combat test . They used a drag strip & got entusiastic, so times were realistic . Havnt got it though , now.

Click to expand...

Well, I hope they gave it a fair test compared to the very biased test by Cycle Magazine in 1973. 49.7 horsepower is obviously from the low-compression 750 and not the high-compression Combat.

worntorn said:

Yep, but the comparison was between the 230 ish hp low tune 440 and a 500 hp 426, definitely an no contest kind of contest!

Click to expand...

Comparing the low 8.5:1 compression 850 to the 10.0:1 compression Combat is similar to comparing the Dodge engines. The results at the drag strips were also no contest. Raising the compression increases the engines thermodynamic efficiency and changes the thermo chemistry by getting more Nitrogen involved in the reaction. The marketing horsepower and torque are irrelevant but the certified drag strip times are not. When did a stock 8.5:1 compression 850 ever run under 13 seconds in the quarter mile? The old 9.0:1 compression 750 often ran 12.70 on a good day and the Combats were faster still. The 850 just wasn't that quick.

Click to expand...

I was closely involved with drag racing in the 70s, and while a well prepared Norton was quite quick, blown motors meant the bikes werent that popular for street bike competition, as soon as things like the Z1 became available.

NOW , Compression Ratio isnt Everything , though its Close . Volumetric Efficancy , in the manner of cylinder filling , counts for a bit . OR a good Deal .
Note the little 2 strokes with , when the C.R. is defined by the port opening , is naff all . Hence . If thetd banned ' tuned pipes ' in F - 750 they wouldve been slugged .

Youngh UPHILLS Bonneville would be generally regarded as the Quickest , But then theres . . . Shareing the same final drive ratio . but with the advantage of the
Simplex Chain ( less Drag ) slightly higher .Overall .Not Only That . 9.5:1 pistons with the Flatter Crown giveing enhanced flame propagation , Combined with the 1961
8 - stud Head with the reinforced chambers , somewhat larger Valves , the most advancd porting , according to theory , available in 1977 / 78 , with more evolved
seating aragements ( the Valves , Idiot . Though the seat wasnt bad ) than were commonly available for more than a decade afterward . Best Bonne Head on the planet ?
60 Bucks , Mate ( for the work ) Theyre Not Bad Standard . ( if somebody hasnt been at them ) . COMBINED with tuned length Exhaust pipes , trimmed to fit close for cornering clearance . The Mega's perforated baffles would be igniteing chamber purgeing remenants from 93 / 94 mph . In Third .

110 in third equates to 131 or 135 valve floating , if a decline onto flat in top . Quite ammuseing out accelerateing a Z1 in 2nd , uphill . Then , standards slipped as the years passed .



Later sold to a ' Farm Boy ' , run flat continueously for 6 or twelve months , the left pipe flattened to half width , untuned . We ran it in a 1/4 mile car club sprint .
Took a few runs to get a clean one , juggling clutch slip ( worn ) bogging ( knackered ) and change ponts ( the old girl'd go flat at 90 in third .Had to shift to top for line .

Pulled down a few weekends later , a 20 thou feeler guage went between sleeve & pisto , one comp ring was in twenty pieces , one sixteen , with some missing , I think one whole and one halved . :shock: This was from 35.ooo on the overhaul , includeing Farmer Browns Tenure . Really WFO isnt good for the rigs , the throttle needs rolling on , to a degree . Mains were shot , bigends wernt bad but needed first undersize .
We got a 14 . 5 . Id estimate we lost a half a second off the line , half easy at the end , and another half in the middle , plus annother for overall uselessnes .
So just the one and a half is 13 even . seeing it'd snot anything , id take 12.5 as sanre .Particularly as Stock 750s tested in Aus ran 12.5 . Another Quaterd be gained at the strip from the burn out trough .
If that didnt work , at .060 after the rebore , and with Duplex primary gearing , it mightve held it down under 130 , but itdve got there quicker .
If sailed past the Z1 in 2 nd ( or away from , to be concise ) after edgeing it in first . a year or so before . ( we'll get index plunger spring lectures next )



Now , this nasty contrivance . 23T for starters should throw it out . However , New MkII 32 mm Amals , and all as as good as , New . But settled in , etc ( First build @ 7.000 Miles . So , the Bores Were Straight .) You can see its Also Pre Unit , also Duplex Cradle . The similarities in chassis dynamics arnt far differant . The Commando a bit stiffer and sharper in the front , The Bonneville in the rear , both steadyer or less nervous two up ( a Pillion ) Commando more of a pig to get off the line . But it held a XS 1100 Dead even ( on two runs . A wheel Ea way on the start , nothing in it from there , XS had 4-1 Ex , C'do Std Cam put in tby the ,much easier of the line , pull from clutch home , but not the mid upper punch of the two S .

Send me Youre Commandos . ' We ' need to prove this Point . ! 8) :shock:

Carbonfibre said:

I was closely involved with drag racing in the 70s, and while a well prepared Norton was quite quick, blown motors meant the bikes werent that popular for street bike competition, as soon as things like the Z1 became available.

Click to expand...

Obviously not with Z1's then, if you didn't even know the cranks needed to be welded for anything more than a big bore kit.....

Didn't superchargers put a bike out of streetbike class ??

P.S. Ever heard of a bike called Hogslayer. ?

worntorn said:

I dont think i can win the argument Murray, you have knowledge of these bikes that the makers didnt!

Click to expand...

Norton must have known the performance of the stock low-compression 850 was lacking otherwise they would not have needed to publish figures for a bike with “Stage One” upgrades.

worntorn said:

...This is an article about our Vancouver Vincent group...

Click to expand...

As someone that actually owned a British machine from new there are some things in the article that I find very disturbing.

The first problem is that it reinforces the old myth about British bikes leaking oil with, “..."oiled the highways from Edmonton” on his '47 HRD Rapide...” Surely some Liquid Gasket could help with that.

Then they go on to emphasize how unreliable most British bikes are, “And the reliability is twice what any other British one was.” and how especially bad the BSA was, “if you took a BSA on a thousand kilometre ride, you'd never get to the destination...” It is odd that nobody noticed before that all BSA bikes [starting in 1910] would break down every 600 miles.

There is also the bizarre claim, “It was the superbike of the '50s and '60s.” Now I know these fellows really, reeally love their bikes but the Vincents were not “THE” superbike of the sixties at all and even in the early fifties there were other “super” machines like the Thunderbird. The Vincent twins are “SOME” of the greatest bikes ever made but were also very rare because they could cost as much as a small house. Vincents were never “THE” only contender for “superbike” status.

worntorn said:

Here is one last road test for you to look at and denounce! This one is a 12.75 et.

Click to expand...

There is not much there to denounce. It is clear from the text that they did not test quarter mile times and this means the information had to come from somewhere else. They do not specify the source nor, more importantly, whether the bike was stock or not. Without knowing any details 12.75 is just another number like 42 or eleventy-seven.

Matt Spencer said:

... ' We ' need to prove this Point . ! 8) :shock:

Click to expand...

Methinks we already have proven many points. First the Kawasaki Mach IV was the quickest Japanese bike in ’73 but it could not manage anywhere near the 12.00 seconds claimed for it. The 750 Combat was quicker than the Mach IV and the 850 “Combat” would have been quicker yet if it had been offered from the factory. It has been an interesting thread overall.

Quote from Murray B "There is also the bizarre claim, “It was the superbike of the '50s and '60s.” Now I know these fellows really, reeally love their bikes but the Vincents were not “THE” superbike of the sixties at all and even in the early fifties there were other “super” machines like the Thunderbird."

reference would be to the Black Lightning model which went 186 mph in 1955 and was a production motorcycle that anyone could order. Unfaired and on pump gas, actual top speeds of 140-145 mph are typical for a Black Lightning and there are many records to prove that. As Vincent said "A fact, not a Slogan"

A Triumph Thunderbird was still struggling to honestly reach get over the ton back in the day. Even in the sixties top speeds of the top production bikes was advertised in the 110 -120 range. Achievable perhaps with a small rider, a tailwind and some optimism.

Not sure how we have proven that a Combat Commando is faster than a Kawi 750 triple or anything else, other than thru Murrays Selective Acceptable Number Process.
I love my Nortons, but I remember those ferocious H2s. No chance against those things in a straight line, sorry, it's just to ridiculous.

Murray B said:

Then they go on to emphasize how unreliable most British bikes are, “And the reliability is twice what any other British one was.” and how especially bad the BSA was, “if you took a BSA on a thousand kilometre ride, you'd never get to the destination...” It is odd that nobody noticed before that all BSA bikes [starting in 1910] would break down every 600 miles.

Click to expand...

Actually, they very much noticed that bikes prior to 1910 did break down, a lot.
The old bogey of broken exhaust valves, in particular.

If you know your motorcycle history, and read your road tests from back then, it was said that the 1910 Model Triumph WAS THE FIRST MOTORCYCLE THAT COULD TAKE MORE PUNISHMENT THAN THE RIDER. Those very words, in fact. This was considered a milestone in motorcycle manufacture, at the time. Mr. Ivan Hart-Davies did the JohnO'Groats to lands End record, and damaged his health, but the bike kept going.
Prior to this, it was the other way round.

Triumph note, not BSA, BSA didn't make bikes in 1910. They brought out a 1911 model, a copy of the 1910 Triumph....

But we digress.....

Ventured down to the big smoke by train today and got skinned for a copy of Brooklands " Commando Road Tests " as there are 49 articals in it It was over a dollar Each . :?
Firtst glance at the train stn. was a claimed 12.2 from a 850 , pre IIA , which for California are Plastic airbox bean can muffler things . Evidently they would be on 19 T for
that time .
Ventured off to sydneys biggest second hand book store . 2/10 of 5/8 of s f a . No piles of old magazines to the ceiling . Most Dissapointed .

Trawing through the information heading back , its evident a lot of the early testers were barely motorcyclists . Motorcyclist in particuler . Also from the scatheing comments
many mechcanics wernt the full quid , and the factory empoloyed a number of left handed baboons .

However , some of the machines did run correctly , at around 13 seconds , and nearly always at over 100 mph terminal speed . Rawlins tripe in there also .
Recall more rubber neccessary to get substantially under 12 seconds .

Obviously a bit of care on assembly pays dividends , My 750 had a slight oil mark Barrel to case right rear by 10.000 on build ( 17.000 overall ), a damp spot under the primary . 9 always used no sealant there ) and I think Id thrown two rubber O rings , or a new one in after a weep eventually on a long trip , some at some speed .
NEVER any mechanical issues bar Auto Advance clapping out . And Quiter operation mechanically on 2S cam than the standard one .

Also , if the brain cells not at half mast , Id thought the H2s , at least the later disc brake ones , ran identical times to a Z1 , around 12 at maybe 110 , tops . STOCK .
It would loosen things up thouh . To run a seasons meetings on either , twice , a welded crank or at leat the ols ' spot weld on the crankpins ' was neccesary .

Rohan said:

Carbonfibre said:

I was closely involved with drag racing in the 70s, and while a well prepared Norton was quite quick, blown motors meant the bikes werent that popular for street bike competition, as soon as things like the Z1 became available.

Click to expand...

Obviously not with Z1's then, if you didn't even know the cranks needed to be welded for anything more than a big bore kit.....

Didn't superchargers put a bike out of streetbike class ??

P.S. Ever heard of a bike called Hogslayer. ?

Click to expand...

The reason for welding a Z1 crank is to prevent twisting on race bikes with very wide rear tyres, and is simply not needed on bikes running in the street class. Welding a Z1 crank is not difficult to do in any case, and can be carried out in about an hour, after motor has been removed from chassis.

The main reason few people in the UK ran Nortons in the street class, was down to motors which fell apart (blown) pretty regularly if they were being raced seriously. Broken gear box casings were also quite common, and this is a problem which affected Nortons being used for MX racing, as well as drag.

There were a few people racing Nortons in the street class here in the UK during the early 70s but they generally had close links to either the Norton factory, or worked in shops selling the bikes, so frequent replacement of engine parts was not a major problem.

Up until the time where UK and US drag racing was pretty much ruled by Z1 powered machinery, budget built bikes like the Hogslayer ran very well against super expensive HDs, which were bigger capacity and in some cases cost about 5 times as much to build.

Murray B said:

worntorn said:

I dont think i can win the argument Murray, you have knowledge of these bikes that the makers didnt!

Click to expand...

Norton must have known the performance of the stock low-compression 850 was lacking otherwise they would not have needed to publish figures for a bike with “Stage One” upgrades.

worntorn said:

...This is an article about our Vancouver Vincent group...

Click to expand...

As someone that actually owned a British machine from new there are some things in the article that I find very disturbing.

The first problem is that it reinforces the old myth about British bikes leaking oil with, “..."oiled the highways from Edmonton” on his '47 HRD Rapide...” Surely some Liquid Gasket could help with that.

Then they go on to emphasize how unreliable most British bikes are, “And the reliability is twice what any other British one was.” and how especially bad the BSA was, “if you took a BSA on a thousand kilometre ride, you'd never get to the destination...” It is odd that nobody noticed before that all BSA bikes [starting in 1910] would break down every 600 miles.

There is also the bizarre claim, “It was the superbike of the '50s and '60s.” Now I know these fellows really, reeally love their bikes but the Vincents were not “THE” superbike of the sixties at all and even in the early fifties there were other “super” machines like the Thunderbird. The Vincent twins are “SOME” of the greatest bikes ever made but were also very rare because they could cost as much as a small house. Vincents were never “THE” only contender for “superbike” status.

worntorn said:

Here is one last road test for you to look at and denounce! This one is a 12.75 et.

Click to expand...

There is not much there to denounce. It is clear from the text that they did not test quarter mile times and this means the information had to come from somewhere else. They do not specify the source nor, more importantly, whether the bike was stock or not. Without knowing any details 12.75 is just another number like 42 or eleventy-seven.

Matt Spencer said:

... ' We ' need to prove this Point . ! 8) :shock:

Click to expand...

Methinks we already have proven many points. First the Kawasaki Mach IV was the quickest Japanese bike in ’73 but it could not manage anywhere near the 12.00 seconds claimed for it. The 750 Combat was quicker than the Mach IV and the 850 “Combat” would have been quicker yet if it had been offered from the factory. It has been an interesting thread overall.

Click to expand...

You seem to be an authority on performance figures relating to 70s machinery! Have you ever owned or ridden an H1 or H2 I wonder, and whats the fastest time you have run on your own Commando race bike, and did you manage to beat many Z1s when you were racing?

Indeed , and on the street , youd need a lunatic to run past 80 in suberbia , and not a lot thought smokeing the rear tyre of the line entirely advisable .
Add a few bumps or kinks , and the Kawasaki lads were liable to have to rearange their priorities .

Thing is the Kwack rider would be so far ahead of anyone on a Brit bike, that they could easily afford to take it very easy in the turns if they were a less experienced rider, not quite able to handle the power of their bike...................

Yea , those H2s are real noisey , they sure sound fast . :lol:

Its not really the power they need to worry about , its the steering .

I hate to admit it but I do enjoy a ride on a hyper 2 stroke every now and then. I have a Maico 490 Alpha one that I get on maybe twice a year, nothing like it when it hits, the little hairs on the back of your neck stand on end .



I never had the chance to ride an H2 but did see and hear them go, don't know if if would be quite the rush of that 230 lb Maico going from zero to about 80mph in a few seconds, but I know the feeling.


Kawi also had an earlier bike called the Avenger, a 400 . This was a very quick little machine too. Again, the powerband was narrow like all the Japanese 2 strokes were (the Maico is wide, that is why they won so much)

I think the Avenger had a spot in the band where the horsepower doubled over a 2,000 RPM pull. Fun.
I guess I like em all. :lol:

Sometimes 2 strokes are all that is needed.

Rideing the mates H2 , I was a bit dissapointed , felt a bit tiop tippy . Familiarity would improve pilotage , But the Knorton lunged from 4 to 7 grande , the kwaker 5 to 7 , and I didnt think stronger .
Problem being winding it up and throttle to steer was all dramatic and for exciteable types , Id prefered the cool calm precision of My commando , but she ran 32 Mk IIs and a wierd head .

The new gas melted the intake rubbers on the Kwacker , noteably the centre one split first , above all the din , he didnt catch it , Little bits of piston migrated to the big end bearing . That saw it of the road for a few years , due to the expense , and getting all the right bits together and finding one of the few peoples to be trusted with a crankshaft that wasnt realted to Atilla the hun as far as chargeing went .

The Kwackers were a bit ' Hair Trigger ' , the bloke who traded in the 500 on a newr new Combat Roadster that'd needed a bit of loot for ' the showroom ' as itd been down twice , bought it from the workshop.
They were glad to get his well thrashed 500 as someone wanted one , and they all sounded like that , with a few miles on em .
He was glad to get a Commando for 2/3 of the list price and wasnt worried about the paint and stickers , a grazed axle nut and lever .
He found it wheelstood as good as the kwacker too ,
The Local Fastback owner was a bit of a legend and gave the young lad the details on tuneing / serviceing so he wouldnt have to rely on generrally indifferant and expenssive trade sources .

Basically a dream come true , as the price was usually way beyond a school leavers abilities . hence grabing the cheap & nasty . The shop fully understood the top end on the kwacker was due to fall to bits .
Think it had 15.000 on it , they thought the new owner wouldnt baulk at a top overhaul at six months after puchase . After all , there cheap & easy to do .

Cant tell you where the Norton Story went , after he headed of for parts unknown , but will ask if im ever back that way .

worntorn said:

...reference would be to the Black Lightning model which went 186 mph in 1955 and was a production motorcycle that anyone could order...”

Click to expand...

Vincent set a world speed record for 1955 and it was beaten by a Triumph the next year. As far as I can find out there were only 31 Black Lightnings made and that should not have been enough for homologation even back then. The Black Shadow was the production bike and it was rated for 125 mph which was fast for those days. It should be noted that the Brough Superior SS100 was rated for 124 mph but was out of production by the fifties.

worntorn said:

A Triumph Thunderbird was still struggling to honestly reach get over the ton back in the day.

Click to expand...

Yes, but that may not prevent it from being a superbike. According to Cycle magazine’s March 1970, “The Big Seven: Superbike Comparison Test!” there are several different characteristics that a superbike should have. They mention, in no particular order; Price, Weight, Braking Force, Lap Time and Quarter Mile time. The only speed they are looking at is the speed at the end of the quarter mile run. They do not mention the absolute top speed. There is nothing about these criteria that would eliminate the Thunderbird. Now that I think about your claims I wonder if any of the Vincents were superbikes considering that they were expensive exotics and not affordable by ordinary people.

worntorn said:

I love my Nortons, but I remember those ferocious H2s...

Click to expand...

The best time posted in this thread for the “ferocious” was 12.40 and we know that an 828cc “Combat” would do 12.00. The 745cc “Combat should not be far behind this, let us say two or three tenths or 12.30. Where were you in ’72 that you do not know this? Combats completely dominated stock motorcycle drag racing from ’72 until the advent of Kawasaki 1000 which was their first bike capable of 12.00. It is easy enough to remember. The big “Hemi” dominated stock drag racing for cars for years and the little Norton “Hemis” dominated stock drag racing for bikes from about ’68 to ’77 or so. That is why the Commandos were so popular and it was a major factor in my deciding to purchase one.

By the way every owner of the Kawasaki 750 triple that I ever talked to was very angry that Kawasaki claimed the bike could do 12.00 flat and it could not even get close to that time. They dropped the big two-strokes completely after that dog. Please don’t parrot the hype because I was there and know that is not how it all went down.

worntorn said:

I hate to admit it but I do enjoy a ride on a hyper 2 stroke every now and then. I have a Maico 490 Alpha one that I get on maybe twice a year, nothing like it when it hits, the little hairs on the back of your neck stand on end .



I never had the chance to ride an H2 but did see and hear them go, don't know if if would be quite the rush of that 230 lb Maico going from zero to about 80mph in a few seconds, but I know the feeling.


Kawi also had an earlier bike called the Avenger, a 400 . This was a very quick little machine too. Again, the powerband was narrow like all the Japanese 2 strokes were (the Maico is wide, that is why they won so much)

I think the Avenger had a spot in the band where the horsepower doubled over a 2,000 RPM pull. Fun.
I guess I like em all. :lol:

Sometimes 2 strokes are all that is needed.

Click to expand...

I used to race a 500 KTM 2T Mxer.............it had a 4 speed box, and the sensation of wheelying going down hill when changing to third gear made road bikes seem very tame indeed.

Murray B said:

worntorn said:

...reference would be to the Black Lightning model which went 186 mph in 1955 and was a production motorcycle that anyone could order...”

Click to expand...

Vincent set a world speed record for 1955 and it was beaten by a Triumph the next year. As far as I can find out there were only 31 Black Lightnings made and that should not have been enough for homologation even back then. The Black Shadow was the production bike and it was rated for 125 mph which was fast for those days. It should be noted that the Brough Superior SS100 was rated for 124 mph but was out of production by the fifties.

worntorn said:

A Triumph Thunderbird was still struggling to honestly reach get over the ton back in the day.

Click to expand...

Yes, but that may not prevent it from being a superbike. According to Cycle magazine’s March 1970, “The Big Seven: Superbike Comparison Test!” there are several different characteristics that a superbike should have. They mention, in no particular order; Price, Weight, Braking Force, Lap Time and Quarter Mile time. The only speed they are looking at is the speed at the end of the quarter mile run. They do not mention the absolute top speed. There is nothing about these criteria that would eliminate the Thunderbird. Now that I think about your claims I wonder if any of the Vincents were superbikes considering that they were expensive exotics and not affordable by ordinary people.

worntorn said:

I love my Nortons, but I remember those ferocious H2s...

Click to expand...

The best time posted in this thread for the “ferocious” was 12.40 and we know that an 828cc “Combat” would do 12.00. The 745cc “Combat should not be far behind this, let us say two or three tenths or 12.30. Where were you in ’72 that you do not know this? Combats completely dominated stock motorcycle drag racing from ’72 until the advent of Kawasaki 1000 which was their first bike capable of 12.00. It is easy enough to remember. The big “Hemi” dominated stock drag racing for cars for years and the little Norton “Hemis” dominated stock drag racing for bikes from about ’68 to ’77 or so. That is why the Commandos were so popular and it was a major factor in my deciding to purchase one.

By the way every owner of the Kawasaki 750 triple that I ever talked to was very angry that Kawasaki claimed the bike could do 12.00 flat and it could not even get close to that time. They dropped the big two-strokes completely after that dog. Please don’t parrot the hype because I was there and know that is not how it all went down.

Click to expand...

The main problem with trying to run fast 1/4 mile times with a Norton, is the very likely scenario of the suffering major engine/gear box damage, if anything more than a couple of runs were attempted. This is the main reason that other than people who had free access to spare parts, no one here in the UK serious raced these bikes in the street class, as it was simply too costly dealing with blow ups.

Matt Spencer said:

Rideing the mates H2 , I was a bit dissapointed , felt a bit tiop tippy . Familiarity would improve pilotage , But the Knorton lunged from 4 to 7 grande , the kwaker 5 to 7 , and I didnt think stronger .
Problem being winding it up and throttle to steer was all dramatic and for exciteable types , Id prefered the cool calm precision of My commando , but she ran 32 Mk IIs and a wierd head .

The new gas melted the intake rubbers on the Kwacker , noteably the centre one split first , above all the din , he didnt catch it , Little bits of piston migrated to the big end bearing . That saw it of the road for a few years , due to the expense , and getting all the right bits together and finding one of the few peoples to be trusted with a crankshaft that wasnt realted to Atilla the hun as far as chargeing went .

The Kwackers were a bit ' Hair Trigger ' , the bloke who traded in the 500 on a newr new Combat Roadster that'd needed a bit of loot for ' the showroom ' as itd been down twice , bought it from the workshop.
They were glad to get his well thrashed 500 as someone wanted one , and they all sounded like that , with a few miles on em .
He was glad to get a Commando for 2/3 of the list price and wasnt worried about the paint and stickers , a grazed axle nut and lever .
He found it wheelstood as good as the kwacker too ,
The Local Fastback owner was a bit of a legend and gave the young lad the details on tuneing / serviceing so he wouldnt have to rely on generrally indifferant and expenssive trade sources .

Basically a dream come true , as the price was usually way beyond a school leavers abilities . hence grabing the cheap & nasty . The shop fully understood the top end on the kwacker was due to fall to bits .
Think it had 15.000 on it , they thought the new owner wouldnt baulk at a top overhaul at six months after puchase . After all , there cheap & easy to do .

Cant tell you where the Norton Story went , after he headed of for parts unknown , but will ask if im ever back that way .

Click to expand...

Riding a Commando in comparison to an HI/H2 is a bit like comparing riding a plodding old cart horse to a highly strung race horse. The cart horse is certainly going to be the one some will choose, while others will favour the race horse.

I worked at a Kawasaki main dealer in the 70s, and during the 3 years I was there we did no engine work at all on the H1/H2's sold, but the Norton MX bikes raced by the owner of the shop seemed to suffer major mechanical problems after almost every race.

These problems went away completely when he built an H2 powered outfit, which later was followed by Z1000 power..........both outfits were pretty much bulletproof and an extremely good way of advertising the superiority of the Jap motors over the Brit ones that were still commonly being used in sidecar MX racing.

Oh Dear .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_triple

A nervous race horse with rickets , a nervous twitch , and a Drinking problem . Its evident your mates riders didnt respect the redline on the Nortons .

Recalling being pillioned by the kwickersaki maniac ( hed been used as ballast on the Bonneville & Commando , the later with the pillion footrests dirctly on the alloy plates , he developed a nervous twitch
dragging them 7 his roman sandles cranked over at 80 . Ive met stronger nerved people , though only at 50 on smooth seal , yougngh Henry just moved his bare feet in rubber thongs fuyrther in the pegs .

Haveing a point to prove , the well tuned H2 was full wellie , Lurch , grope ( for a gear ) Lurch , repeat , ditto . Undulateing roads were its undooing , the ' knotty ' handling meant it used most of the drive
tying the frame / suspension in knots . Definately didnt have the ability to be laid over till the pegs ground , at speed , and steadily wind through the bends and brows . More stop- start - lurch- lean- lurch-
yang- twiddle- groan- yang-yang-oops- yang- weave-lurch-yang . e.t.c.

While the Katana mayve had more haul than the Commando , the holes in the powerband supremely evident two up , along with the excess of time it was inadviseable to overtax the chassis further , the
kwakersiki mayve held it in lurches under power , but drop off at ea gear shift . IF the road was flat , smooth , and broard . Motorcycle Maniacs got a 12.2 out of a Combat , late 72 , by running 19T on the
Trans , seeing 17 was an option , or going to 22 and running in three gears , its no issue. Seeing a 5 spped was an option , with Equal gears a Combat or non emmisions 850 will match the quacker in the
Quater . Though haveing valve gear , a pilot capeable of reading a tachometer might be advised .

As far as twisty roads go , until the H2s rear shocks have been Girling or Koni updated , its in the ditch. Before you start looking at undulation or camber changes .

All very well on a Track to run W.F.O. and the devil take the hindmost , but try it on the road and the life insurance of the rider is liable to be called into effect .


" motorcyclist ' in America ran a top ten test after the Z1 came out , featureing both those and another eight contenders .They certainly didnt consider the H2 the better bike except for Zang and drinking habits .
Essentiallyit was a mobile air pump for consumeing fuel , and at 15 to 25 to the gallon , theyred be something entirely awrey if it Didnt produce a bit of Horsepower . Unfortunately , it was no longer legal to market mobile mallaca sets under impending regulations .

As far as ' Highly Strung Race Horse ' goes , Idve thought that dscrbed the Commando to a T , pre electric foot .Pot bellied Nag or Camel wouldve been more fitting to a spitting belching directionally unstable
perpetrator of the Fuel Crisis . It didnt leak oil , it spewed it out the back , or siezed if it wasnt .

Just Remember " One Finger on the Clutch ' , the two stroke riders mantra . Check all those raceing pictures . RELIABLE . ? Who put these commandos together you whinew about , anyway . :twisted: :roll: :mrgreen: