Café Commando build thread
- Thread starter Jeandr
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It is the lack of feedback that the rubber end has and the slop makes it unbearable for me on a Commando set at .010". That's why my 850 is sitting in a solid frame.norbsa48503 said:
Double the speed., my favorite stretch is posted at 50kph and is a hoot at 160kph in the off season with tires hot and air on every crest. Yet to be experienced on my P11 special though....
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willh said:
Isn't 160kph only like 20mph? Seems like the top speed the Mounties would let you get away with. :mrgreen:
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Here's 2 forum URL's for more photos and history and concepts.
post66581.html?hilit=watt%20linkage#p66581
post68027.html?hilit=watt%20linkage#p68027
Yes sir, takes a wilder soul to risk life and limb on mere joy rides. A factory
Cdo is still very good, up to point > of serious dicing with elite bikes and riders, its both out gunned and becomes as dangerous as it gets.
On Peel, with fork brace and valve spring'd forks, I ignored 50 mph marked turns, 120 was common on commutes. On 40's could also more than double into 90's mph, but also on some longer 35 mph turns. 10 mph marked over ten times into upper 50's lower 60's. BUT last way is not possible w/o a dramatic change in control because direction changes must happen faster and stronger than a human can do so. I may never do this again in public its so dangerous d/t on coming in tight blinds but so refreshing and secure on Peel I can't ever get it out of my mind. I did not have to slow for 35 turn going non ticket 60 mph, which mean leaning to pegs, but sticks so secure it was not any effort. But it did put my head too near to on coming traffic to do much into blinds.
Only the Patton rump rod on Peel is robustly fixed to cradle and frame, the head and breast steady have one end mounted on long springy studs and her rod ends are Lord's Elastometric - rubber isolated. This lets Peel twist up, which seems to relieve tire conficts and then hold that till I let off then give useful one motion unwrap w/o any rebound. I do not know if any above matters for isolation or is just flexy enough or is hindering even more benefits. Peel flat disappears even to most wind eddies and nuance level road texture, so Goldwing like just puttering around. Flabbergastingly Fabulous!
I got buzzed if any the rods got screwed in/out so no free slack, but at most slack and with isolastics set close to factory - Fabulously Flabergasting.
Peels rods are opposite sides mounted and oriented to limit and bind each other, using piston bore as vertical line, not the chassis. But they can't because the range of motion is small enough to stay in pure linear zone.
Don't know if this matters or not, prolly not. Look here at just the tiny area we are interested in, not hot rod rear suspension ranges.
http://www.brockeng.com/mechanism/Watt.htm
Rods are also a safety feature as allows much better hard brake control and fast avoidance moves w/o going nutzo. I can slide a dozen yards on locked front and out brake my stoppie prone modern. But don't use brakes much for turns anymore, so beware or may end up like me.
I suspect with minor fork mods and tri-links with some weight loss and lots more power, Peel may be only bike capable of taking on the coming fully robotic racers. These robo-bikes are the only ones I see demo handling phases beyond counter steering >>> w/o sliding while staying on power!
post66581.html?hilit=watt%20linkage#p66581
post68027.html?hilit=watt%20linkage#p68027
Yes sir, takes a wilder soul to risk life and limb on mere joy rides. A factory
Cdo is still very good, up to point > of serious dicing with elite bikes and riders, its both out gunned and becomes as dangerous as it gets.
On Peel, with fork brace and valve spring'd forks, I ignored 50 mph marked turns, 120 was common on commutes. On 40's could also more than double into 90's mph, but also on some longer 35 mph turns. 10 mph marked over ten times into upper 50's lower 60's. BUT last way is not possible w/o a dramatic change in control because direction changes must happen faster and stronger than a human can do so. I may never do this again in public its so dangerous d/t on coming in tight blinds but so refreshing and secure on Peel I can't ever get it out of my mind. I did not have to slow for 35 turn going non ticket 60 mph, which mean leaning to pegs, but sticks so secure it was not any effort. But it did put my head too near to on coming traffic to do much into blinds.
Only the Patton rump rod on Peel is robustly fixed to cradle and frame, the head and breast steady have one end mounted on long springy studs and her rod ends are Lord's Elastometric - rubber isolated. This lets Peel twist up, which seems to relieve tire conficts and then hold that till I let off then give useful one motion unwrap w/o any rebound. I do not know if any above matters for isolation or is just flexy enough or is hindering even more benefits. Peel flat disappears even to most wind eddies and nuance level road texture, so Goldwing like just puttering around. Flabbergastingly Fabulous!
I got buzzed if any the rods got screwed in/out so no free slack, but at most slack and with isolastics set close to factory - Fabulously Flabergasting.
Peels rods are opposite sides mounted and oriented to limit and bind each other, using piston bore as vertical line, not the chassis. But they can't because the range of motion is small enough to stay in pure linear zone.
Don't know if this matters or not, prolly not. Look here at just the tiny area we are interested in, not hot rod rear suspension ranges.
http://www.brockeng.com/mechanism/Watt.htm
Rods are also a safety feature as allows much better hard brake control and fast avoidance moves w/o going nutzo. I can slide a dozen yards on locked front and out brake my stoppie prone modern. But don't use brakes much for turns anymore, so beware or may end up like me.
I suspect with minor fork mods and tri-links with some weight loss and lots more power, Peel may be only bike capable of taking on the coming fully robotic racers. These robo-bikes are the only ones I see demo handling phases beyond counter steering >>> w/o sliding while staying on power!
while going a bit slower. At least the officer liked the bike and knocked the speed down to a reasonable fine and demerit points.
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bill said:
Bill, remember I live in Illinois land of one or two curves, sometimes humor is missed through typing. :wink:
grandpaul
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All of the rubber in the isolastic mounting system does it's job of damping out the majority of the engines fore-and-aft vibes, but just as easily allow side-to-side movement of the entire assmbly that includes not only the engine 7 tranny, BUT THE SWINGARM!
In a worst-casde-scenario, a worn swingarm spindle hole in the tranny cradle, coupled with old shocks, and worn out isolastic rubbers can result in over an inch of slop in any direction at the rear axle. If you can imagine that at speed, you can see where waking up in a hospital (if you are lucky) is a distinct possibility.
The rod links eliminate all of the side-to-side range of motion that the rubber mounts allow.
In a worst-casde-scenario, a worn swingarm spindle hole in the tranny cradle, coupled with old shocks, and worn out isolastic rubbers can result in over an inch of slop in any direction at the rear axle. If you can imagine that at speed, you can see where waking up in a hospital (if you are lucky) is a distinct possibility.
The rod links eliminate all of the side-to-side range of motion that the rubber mounts allow.
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Is there anyone out there with a machine shop that can make a rose joint head steady that is affordable to the average man? The 300.00+ options are nice, but a little unrealistic for a lot of us and since quite a few don't have welding or machining equipment making our own isn't really an option either.
britbike220 said:
Posted a few replies earlier the-keith1069-headsteady-t5862.html?hilit=keith1069 no machine tools required except a drill and a tap.
Jean
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all this speed talk - its getting deep in here once again - time to put on the hip-waders :roll:
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Jeandr said:
I didn't see the details, only the picture, thanks Jean and sorry to waste time.
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Jeandr said:
I remember that thread, I think the correct description is "no machine tools required except a drill and a tap and no skill." :mrgreen:
Actually I think you don't even need a tap. Basically a hacksaw and a drill and you can do everything. More tools just make it faster and potentially prettier.
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Ha, no skill is right up my alley :lol:
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britbike220 said:
I have some cousins in Nebraska who would get on their bikes and ride for hundreds of miles to the nearest corner (that wasn't 90º) and then take turns riding through it. :mrgreen:
I cleaned up a lot of my parts and took the engine and transmission appart. With the empty cases, the cylinder and the head in place I can now figure out how to mount the top link.
Looks like I have enough room with my smaller tires to go with a stock swing arm. I will have to modify it to mount my shocks, but only slightly. A quick eyeball from the transmission with the wheel centered shows the back sprocket will line up pretty well (well not as bad as I first thought)
Jean
Looks like I have enough room with my smaller tires to go with a stock swing arm. I will have to modify it to mount my shocks, but only slightly. A quick eyeball from the transmission with the wheel centered shows the back sprocket will line up pretty well (well not as bad as I first thought)
Jean
Those wheels and tires are a bit on the narrow side, but the bike is looking good!! The little Honda 50R is also one of my favorites, they still have a strong following in Japan. My first duty station was over there, and my wife ended up getting me a little plastic model of one, because i kept telling her i wanted to get a real one and just hang it on the wall ( my 200 lb body wouldn't go well with it). I've thought about getting one for my oldest boy (7yr) but he couldn't care less about it. All he wants to do is play his video games. I'd have given my eye teeth for one at his age. I had to make do with a Briggs and stratton powered mini bike. Last night there was an 18" aluminum front rim with a tire and a disc brake hub for 150 bucks, I bid a couple of times but it kept going up. Im still not sure which way i want to go, stay with the stock 19's or lace up something different, Buchanans will get some of my money at some point, just not there yet. Keep up the good work on your Cafe build. Cj
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