Brexit or no Brexit

acotrel said:
When Britain sold to the world, industrial engineering was in it's infancy. The Spitfire and Mustang fighters of WW2, symbolise a change in the way of doing things. I once worked in a large engineering factory which had the complete British trades' structure. The quality of some products was excellent, but the pain of getting there was excruciating. There is no way back to the past.. Probably the best solution for the UK, might be to have a complete rethink about the relationship between top and bottom of their society, and try to move forward together.
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I kind of think WW2 itself had as much to do with the demise of English manufacturing as much as anything. Before the war BSA's slogan was 1 in 4 a BSA, referring to their world market share. A world market that included a British empire that spanned the globe and a built in transport network to support it. By 1945 the empire was mostly gone, the US had far surpassed British manufacturing capacity, and we had more than ample means to deliver goods worldwide. You are 100% correct however in the idea of a rethink of relations between those that produce/consume goods and those that direct that production. Who knows, BSA might be making more than scopes and air rifles today if that had happened in the 50s.
 
Some of the language used in this debate sucks! And it’s used intentionally to support a point of view.

No Deal! They all shout...

Well currently we are only legally able to stay IN the EU until 31st Oct. After which we will leave by default. THAT deal has already been agreed.

So, if we cannot agree new terms to leave, then we will leave with no deal.

Unless we wish to stay longer, something which can only be achieved if we agree a deal allowing us to do so!

Ergo, the ONLY thing that’s definite to happen, unless a deal is made, is that we will leave on 31st Oct... with no deal.

Saying ‘we will make no deal illegal’ is nonsense. If a deal can’t be agreed then there is no deal. Deals are legislated by law... enshrined by law... not created by law!
 
BSA air rifles and scopes - not seen the latest offering then? Mahindra have been busy, since they took on the Jawa and BSA trademarks.

The war had nothing to do with the demise of the UK motorcycle industry, the thieving, greedy un-educated boardrooms saw to that, few of them are sadly still breathing. The so highly worshiped bent press test riders of the day contributed as well. Not one had the balls to tell BSA to scrap the Bantam the day it was announced - there were better two strokes on the continent and the press knew it. Must have been so cosy for them both in bed together.

There is always a deal, it is called the WTO Regulations, even Iran has a trade deal with the rest of the world, though not a very good one for them it seems.

Spain will be the first to come knocking at the UK's door, the salad crop they sell to the UK is worth a fortune, then French and Spanish fisherman etc. What comes to the UK comes by boat, even the immigrants, it will not make much difference if it comes across the channel or from the other side of the planet on a ship.
 
I am glad the Brexit debate about neoliberalism is happening in the UK. In Australia, we are involved with China and America. The Americans want to put intercontinental ballistic missiles in Northern Australia and Trump is putting tariffs on Chinese imports into America. However the Australian economy is almost totally dependent on selling minerals to China. But we depend on America for our defence and China is an authoritarian nuclear power. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If any nation can solve the neoliberal problems, it is the British. What happens with Brexit will set a precedent. Australia will watch and learn.
 
Madnorton said:
BSA air rifles and scopes - not seen the latest offering then? Mahindra have been busy, since they took on the Jawa and BSA trademarks.

The war had nothing to do with the demise of the UK motorcycle industry, the thieving, greedy un-educated boardrooms saw to that, few of them are sadly still breathing. The so highly worshiped bent press test riders of the day contributed as well. Not one had the balls to tell BSA to scrap the Bantam the day it was announced - there were better two strokes on the continent and the press knew it. Must have been so cosy for them both in bed together.

There is always a deal, it is called the WTO Regulations, even Iran has a trade deal with the rest of the world, though not a very good one for them it seems.

Spain will be the first to come knocking at the UK's door, the salad crop they sell to the UK is worth a fortune, then French and Spanish fisherman etc. What comes to the UK comes by boat, even the immigrants, it will not make much difference if it comes across the channel or from the other side of the planet on a ship.
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Mahindra-I have one of their tractors. Not bad for an Indian tractor made in Korea and "Proudly Assembled in Pennsylvania" according to the sticker on it.
 
Judging from what is happening in the Australian economy, eventually there will be a backlash. We have household debt at all-time high levels, stagnant wages growth and high energy prices. Before our manufacturers went off shore, things were better for the average guy. The top-end-of town are doing OK - almost . But even that seems to be stalling. The retail sector has slowed down because people are not buying due to lack of discretionary spending power.
My feeling is that we do not use the Chinese and Indian manufacturers as smartly as we might That 'assembled in Pennsylvania' might be a better way to go. I was looking at the Skyteam Ace 125 motorcycle. There are better motors available than the CB125. - Perhaps a CRF250 Honda motor ?

 
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The Indian manufacturing base has seen many 2nd generation Indians from the UK go and take advantage there - the quality is thus far higher than it was on some goods. The UK is also being 'robbed' of its knowledge and expertise, just look at how many Indian groups own companies in the UK, Liberty HG for example.
The Chinese own a foundry in the west country, it is where your 'Chinese' samples come, a plant with very modern equipment so the item you see is very good and thus you place the order and then some back street low tech foundry in china them makes your parts.
 
How many countries have this arrangement ? Australia sells minerals and farm produce to China and in return buys most manufactured goods from there .

 
So the Tories won the general election of 2019 and Boris is happily visiting the Queen, like the cat that had got the cream, to form a new government. The leader of the Lib/Dem lost her seat so two people have to take on that job, Labour have lost no less than 5 general elections in a row and Jezza will (soon I hope) be finally standing down as leader- he finally got the message from the British electorate – they are not ready for Corbyns ideology just yet – the Labour party made the same mistake with the left wing Michael Foot as leader.
 
Bernhard said:
he finally got the message from the British electorate – they are not ready for Corbyns ideology just yet
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No, the briefing notes issued tell Labour to blame Brexit and the media, nothing to do with policies.

Long may the self delusion continue ;)
 
My wife is Japanese, so brings an outside view to our internal politics.

She is adamant “that Corbyn fellow did not want to win. He did everything he could to deliberately dissuade people from voting for him. It’s obvious”.

Makes me wonder...
 
Fast Eddie said:
My wife is Japanese, so brings an outside view to our internal politics.

She is adamant “that Corbyn fellow did not want to win. He did everything he could to deliberately dissuade people from voting for him. It’s obvious”.

Makes me wonder...
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I had exactly the same thought. In some cases, it might be necessary to lose a battle to win a war. I think the same might have happened in Australia at the last federal election. Our PM continually lied about the state of the economy, when it was obviously stuffed. Since the GFC happened in 2008 when Labor was in power, we have had one stimulus from the Rudd government, then the LNP got back into power. The LNP only ever has the same policy with respect to the economy, both in good times and in bad - austerity. So now we are stuffed and they are holding the baby.
Brexit might be the same, it might be a poisoned chalice. I cannot see how any political party can undo the neoliberal globalised free market economy. I am convinced it is irreversible. But when you think about it, the conservatives deserve all they get. They have been consistently cynical in what they have done.
 
I was recently in a opportunity shop and found an old book about the general strike of May 1926 in the UK. It was a good read. I never knew why ex-pat Brits in Australia were so union-minded, but now I completely understand what they were about. In any given situation, there must be a balance between democracy and control. What happened in the UK in 1926 was appalling and Thatcher was of the same ilk as Churchill, who wanted to use machine guns against the striking coal miners. I have never believed that union-promoted marxist bullshit is a tolerable answer to fascism. I believe in democracy and that ultimately the good guys will win, if they maintain their ethics.
 
If you look at America, Australia and Europe, the problems are similar - 'only the names have been changed to protect the innocent'.
 
acotrel said:
I Re; " What happened in the UK in 1926 was appalling and Thatcher was of the same ilk as Churchill, who wanted to use machine guns against the striking coal miners. I have never believed that union-promoted marxist bullshit is a tolerable answer to fascism. I believe in democracy and that ultimately the good guys will win, if they maintain their ethics.
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" the difference is everybody with two brain cells knows that Corbyn cound not lead his workers out of a paper bag - and that is a quote from another Labour MP - which makes me wonder how on earth did he get electered leader in the first place?
 
On our ABC radio this morning, there was a report from the UK in which a conservative politician attributed their win in the North of England to workers becoming more ASPRATIONAL, and that is what the conservatives offer. I do not believe in coincidences - 'ASPIRATIONAL' is a word Australian conservatives also like to use. Perhaps the conservatives in many countries collaborate on strategy ?
 
Well the Left surely collaborates on their Holy Gospel. How anybody takes anything any politician says seriously amazes me. They live in another world and feather their nests just as we seek to feather ours. So since we know how the world turns it probably is, as you say, not one where the average fellow will do very well. Equality is a dream. We are not created equal. Good rarely triumphs.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.", - Alexis de Tocqueville
 
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.", - Alexis de Tocqueville

The U.S. has tax cut itself into the poor house. $23 trillion debt and climbing at the rate of a rocket. Politicians promising tax cuts to get elected. The United States goes further into debt at the rate of more than $45,000 per second.

It’s like a boat taking on water. Some think the solution is to punch holes in the bottom to let the water out.
 
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