Brexit or no Brexit

Fast Eddie said:
Considering the scooter is Italian... and the bikes are all British...I’m struggling with your analogy on this one...!
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Just using the mods v rockers analogy
Nationality of bikes not considered, just the image of one against many when the many don’t give a f@@k!
 
it sure looks like we appropriately named our congress as it is the same name used for a group of monkeys!!!
 
It appears that only a week since becoming PM his majority is already down to one, after losing the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election, the only thing this tells us is that anybody who votes pro EU voted Liberal Democrats since the Labour Party just can’t make their minds up and ended up in fourth place, at least the UKIP came last.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-49200636
 
I cannot believe that the UK Conservatives genuinely want Brexit. Both in the UK and Australia, their agenda never changes. They are typically anti-union and neoliberal globalism was basically about thwarting the unions. In Australia, they have achieved that, so now we have zero wages growth while the top end of town is doing OK. I am not familiar with the current condition of the British workers - but to me, Brexit appears to be a response by British workers to the job loss in local industries caused by free trade. I have only one gripe about protectionism. In Australia, our car industry was mainly GM and Ford. What they used to sell us was utter crap - it was always about 20 years behind the Japanese. What was made in Australia were basically American models, but nowhere near as good as what was sold in America. When you have competition, product quality is usually better. But during WW2 the quality of German products was still OK under their authoritarian regime. Personally, I believe that industrial democracy has a role to play in winning any competition.
 
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The other day, I watched a movie on TV about the manufacture of the Mini Coopers in the UK. I think I need one of those, they look excellent.
 
acotrel said:
I cannot believe that the UK Conservatives genuinely want Brexit. Both in the UK and Australia, their agenda never changes. They are typically anti-union and neoliberal globalism was basically about thwarting the unions. In Australia, they have achieved that, so now we have zero wages growth while the top end of town is doing OK. I am not familiar with the current condition of the British workers - but to me, Brexit appears to be a response by British workers to the job loss in local industries caused by free trade. I have only one gripe about protectionism. In Australia, our car industry was mainly GM and Ford. What they used to sell us was utter crap - it was always about 20 years behind the Japanese. What was made in Australia were basically American models, but nowhere near as good as what was sold in America. When you have competition, product quality is usually better. But during WW2 the quality of German products was still OK under their authoritarian regime. Personally, I believe that industrial democracy has a role to play in winning any competition.
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I don't live in Europe and so I don't have a dog in this fight but it strikes me as odd that people would want to be "governed" by nameless faceless people in Brussels who tell you how to measure something such as a bushel v a kilo, or how big the openings must be in a fishing net. Being micro managed is bad enough here in the US where we sort of speak the same language different people different cultures governed by a cookie cutter bureaucracy.
I think and hope it will be better once the UK is well and away from the EU.
John in Texas
 
acotrel said:
The other day, I watched a movie on TV about the manufacture of the Mini Coopers in the UK. I think I need one of those, they look excellent.
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They are!
Best car I have bought in many a year - engine is responsive, comfort is excellent, build quality superb - remember, although branded as “Mini”, it is just the smallest car BMW make
 
N0rt0nelectr@ said:
I think and hope it will be better once the UK is well and away from the EU.
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We all hope so John.
Unfortunately, more and more of our politicians are now publicly stating that they will do all they can to stop Brexit.
The court ruling started by Gina Miller, which resulted in the entirety of Parliament having to agree by a majority to any deal that is brokered, means that we will never have consensus as the opposition just want to use the opportunity to force a general election.
In any other country there would be civil disobedience, calls for the politicians to go etc... as “the will of the people” is being ignored.
I think those who are really excised about this issue will be writing some strongly worded letters to their MP :rolleyes:
The deadline of Halloween is really poignant - if we do leave it will be a horror story for the remainers and if it does not happen it will be a re-run of the night of the living dead for the leavers.
To be honest, most people now don’t really give a shit - they just want it finished.
 
The European Union is the Common Market, an expression of neoliberal globalisation. It is a rationalisation of the various states in Europe. In Australia, at the time of federation, politics was about free trade and protectionism. With free trade you get cheaper goods which lowers the cost of living, however it comes at the cost of local jobs. If you have not got a job, you cannot buy the cheaper goods. The whole thing was about screwing more profit out of the system, primarily by crushing the unions by exposing them to competition from the third world. The debate remains the same. To my mind, free trade is more efficient and ethical. But making the rest of the world happy at our expense means what ? Brexit is not a win-win strategy.
 
Climate change probably corresponds with population growth. Making the global economic system more efficient might cause population growth rather than diminish it.
 
<To my mind, free trade is more efficient and ethical.>

You do have to wonder how the Germans and the French make cars of their
own but we in the UK dont seem able to do this. Do the national governments
in these countries stack the deck and the result isnt free trade?
At one time the UK sold to the world. Now exports are hardly what they once were.
 
Onder said:
<To my mind, free trade is more efficient and ethical.>

You do have to wonder how the Germans and the French make cars of their
own but we in the UK dont seem able to do this. Do the national governments
in these countries stack the deck and the result isnt free trade?
At one time the UK sold to the world. Now exports are hardly what they once were.
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I don't know, or don't recall how this situation was BEFORE the EU?
 
When Britain sold to the world, industrial engineering was in it's infancy. The Spitfire and Mustang fighters of WW2, symbolise a change in the way of doing things. I once worked in a large engineering factory which had the complete British trades' structure. The quality of some products was excellent, but the pain of getting there was excruciating. There is no way back to the past.. Probably the best solution for the UK, might be to have a complete rethink about the relationship between top and bottom of their society, and try to move forward together.
 
The introduction of neoliberal globalism was a paradigm shift. That means the rules have changed. Trying to use the same old answers to solve problems will no longer work. Can you imagine the effect of another general strike would have in the current global situation ? The power balance is now entirely different from what it was in May 1926.
 
There is not a level playing field in the EU, the French have their protection laws for their industry - and the rest of the EU agreed to it. You need a government licence to commercially import certain parts made elsewhere in Europe. If the French department of trade can't get it made in France or subsidised to be made in France then you'll get a licence.
The French social experiment has failed, just look at Sedan, what a hole of a place that is. Sadly, without the UK the Germans will pick up the tab when the UK leaves and the true state of French finances are published.
Even Germany has started to realise that the large wages they are paid are unsustainable. And yes, Italian shipyards are subsidised when making ships for other EU countries.
The sooner the UK leaves the better, strangely, Americans can buy imperial size tube made in Germany, but it cannot be sold in the EU - how daft.
The icing on the cake was the 2 stroke engine law, ditched at the last minute, the un-elected idiots wanted to ban all 2 strokes in Europe thinking that removing mopeds from the streets would reduce pollution - thing was, it would have included chainsaws, at the last moment a cold winter was avoided.
 
acotrel said:
When Britain sold to the world, industrial engineering was in it's infancy. The Spitfire and Mustang fighters of WW2, symbolise a change in the way of doing things. I once worked in a large engineering factory which had the complete British trades' structure. The quality of some products was excellent, but the pain of getting there was excruciating. QUOTE]
Mustang fighters were American planes designed and build in a very short space of time towards the end of the WW2- they were better planes with the Merlin engine;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com...ine-made-it-the-world-beater-of-world-war-ii/
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The graffiti, dirty streets, vandalised abandoned houses. The only nice part is the castle, but even some of the houses around the old moat are an embarrassment. In the past subsidised Labour and a large police force would have repaired the infrastructure and would have been well policed.
As a visitor to France many times in the past 35 years it can clearly seen it is going down hill.
 
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