Another oil leak question

It would be nice if it was something simple but I think he cleaned it then started the bike & saw oil developing around the area while just running in his garage. Not out ridding. Hope we don't have to preform surgery to fix it but the PO seems to have been a little lacking in good mechanical sense. Bikes actually in great shape & clean, just needs what all Nortons need. Someone who cares enough to do it right & to take time to learn to if they don't allready. Sorry you've been hit with a number of these things but being what it is they can be felt with. See you around noon.

Food for thought :-

1. If a nut goes onto a stud only so far before getting difficult to turn, the threads can be different. I think there are Whitworth , AF (Across Flats), BSF (British Standard Fine)

2. I only use a copper head gasket and heat it up until it glows red and then dunk it in cold water to make it soft. Tighten everything up, leave it for a day and then come back and retighten all bolts. Keep doing this until everything stays tight. This may be 3 or 4 times while the soft copper changes shape to match head to barrel join. Once leaking and hot engine has made copper go hard, or it has a cheap and nasty cardboard gasket with inserts, I have never got a re-seal by just tightening head bolts.

3. Norton engines leak oil more than others of that era because there is no crankcase vacuum generated by any kind of valve. They can be made to stop leaking by careful assembly and by fitting a one way valve in the breather tube.

May help !

Those nuts need to be tightened. But the question I would be asking is "Can I just tighten the loose nuts?"

I'm thinking that the tightening sequence needs to be followed...and now you have random loose nuts...out of sequence. What are the consequences? Warping. Gasket damage? Sorry to say...I would be taking it apart and checking things...

If your afraid that the nuts are not the right ones or are cross threaded, it won't take much to figure that out...a wrench on the nut and a little pressure will tell you. If that really loose one doesn't move easily you have a problem IMO.

Update:

Glenn (GTSUN) came over to give me a hand and brought a set of Whitworth's with him. We took the left (taller) nut out very slowly with a 1/4WW and it brought the cylinder head stud out with it. Managed to get the mis-fitting 1/4 nut off the stud but lacking the proper 5/16x26 nut we decided to hang it up until a new stud and proper nut could be ordered. Jerry Doe generously offered a set he has at his house not far from mine saving me the wait time of ordering one....Jerry if you are reading this I owe you one. Will report back once we get the new stud/nut fitted and torque everything down properly. Keeping my fingers crossed (and ordering my own set of Whitworths)

So are you also saying it was cross threaded ? on the stud pictures..

olChris said:

So are you also saying it was cross threaded ? on the stud pictures..

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Interestingly the stud didn't seem to have been damaged much as far as cross threading goes but that tall 1/4 nut was a bitch to get off. You can see the vice marks in the middle of the stud to hold it while loosening the nut but the threads did not seem damaged (at least to my untrained eye) I'll get the stud hole in the lower barrel cleaned out and put in the new stud and see how it threads with the proper nut. Honestly Glenn and I were both relieved when the stud turned out due to the improper nut being too tight, better than having a mis-threaded stud or worse having it break off inside the barrel and need extraction. Ill post the progress when I get the other parts and put them in. Appreciate all the continued advice guys

cool, my faith in idiots is still there. How can anyone be so stupid to fit the wrong threads together? Answer. Just another fkcniug ioidt.

Dereck

You and me both Dereck :roll:

At the end of the day, I still love owning this bike despite her flaws. I know it will take time but eventually she will get properly sorted and I will know things were done right. Wont say I don't get frustrated at times but something about this bike always puts a smile on my face...that alone is worth the price of admission :mrgreen:

I need some info about this stud please. There was oil on the threads of it when it came out obviously so I plan on cleaning the threads in the barrel, we now have a new stud and nut (thanks Jerry) and I plan on retoquing all nuts in sequence with my fingers crossed that all will be well. My question is should we use lock tight on the stud going into the barrel??? And am I correct that the oil was leaking past the head gasket ? or could it have come up the barrel threads? Thanks.

gtsun said:

My question is should we use lock tight on the stud going into the barrel??? And am I correct that the oil was leaking past the head gasket ? or could it have come up the barrel threads?

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Could be either, or both, as the barrel drillings for those studs occasionally break through into the pushrod tunnels. Crankcase pressure then forces oil up around the stud, resulting in the typical Commando 'oil leak at the third head fin' problem-so Loctite or gasket sealant on the stud thread is advisable.

New stud and proper nut were installed and properly torqued today but sadly still leaking from what appears to be the same spot. Not as bad of a leak as before but still there. Cleaned everything up between the fins and packed it with 2 areas of candle wick to try and isolate where the leak is coming from...if indeed it is one side. I know it sounds like a ghetto fix but Im hoping it will give me better insight on exactly where the leak is so I can narrow down the area that needs work. Any other ideas y'all may have let me know.

P.S- I did order a PCV from MikesXS so we will see what that does for the internal pressure once installed. Not thinking it will fix this but I figured it couldn't hurt

Bugger, i would'av bet it leaked from that stud.. I asumme you torqued its mate alongside, if not all head nuts etc...

Only other thing that i think is (but you clear pics discourage this "guess" ) the rocker shaft end plate gaskets... If they leak they appear as a terrifying dribble/leak/flow from the top barrel fin at the very front of head n barrels.. Mine did along with that gut churning sensation .. That is when you are stationary and observing.....

With clean oil as you have it is hard to see leaking from rocker shaft end plates.... ..

Yeah, it was a shitty feeling to come back from a short ride and find oil dribbling back down the fins. Sat and watched it idle in the garage for a few minutes before it went out and it was dry as a bone. Checked the rocker shaft end plate gaskets and no drips coming from there. I plan on taking it out tomorrow with my backyard engineered candle wicks shoved up there to see if I can differentiate between which side it is coming from. Based on those findings, and once I get the PCV valve installed, I will reassess and go from there. Keeping a close eye on the oil level which has remained fairly constant and treating this as a trial and error project until I get it squared away. Doesn't help that I'm not well versed in these machines but I am learning as I go. Thank god for the info on this forum and the help of it members (thanks again Glenn, look forward to riding this weekend)

Transcon,

I have had a lot of good luck with Permatex thread sealer. I would remove the the studs again, clean everything up and coat the threads with the Permatex and screw them back in. Sometimes if I have to insert a stud with no room to work I cut a notch in the end with a hacksaw and use a screwdriver to get in. You may have to file the screwdriver blade so the sides are parallel to get a good bite.

Pete

This is what I have done to stop the leaks.
I pulled the studs out of the head and barrels.
I then ran a flat file over the stud holes and you could see the metal is raised around the holes.
I did this on both the head and barrels and then put sealer on the studs before putting the studs back in.
Then on the head gasket, flame ring type, I smeared red silicone lightly around the push rod tunnel and oil holes on both sides of the gasket.
Torqued the head down, ran it until it got hot, let it cool over night, retorqued it, rode it real easy for about 50 miles, let it cool till the next day torqued it again.
I did this each day for 3 more times until it didn't take a torque.
Plus I installed a reed valve at the beginning and for the past 4 years no oil has leaked from the head.
I think removing those studs and filing the ridge around the holes did the trick as well as the silicone plus the breather.
The trans is a another story.

Deets55 said:

Transcon,

I have had a lot of good luck with Permatex thread sealer. I would remove the the studs again, clean everything up and coat the threads with the Permatex and screw them back in. Sometimes if I have to insert a stud with no room to work I cut a notch in the end with a hacksaw and use a screwdriver to get in. You may have to file the screwdriver blade so the sides are parallel to get a good bite.

Pete

Click to expand...

Another option is to get a coupler nut (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... ppt=C1965#), screw the stud into one end, then run a bolt in from the other, jamming the two ends together. This assumes that you can still get to the top of the coupler nut once the stud is drive home. At that point, you put one wrench on the coupler nut, another on the bolt, then loosen the bolt. You can then remove the coupler nut from the stud with no damage, no fuss.

5/16-26? Not -24? If that's truly the case, then the prior is all for naught, as I couldn't find reference for a 5/16" coupler nut in a 26 pitch.

Nathan

It appears that you have been trying to fix the oil leak by refitting the 2 studs with correct thread nuts with the head still on.

Probably the leak is from the pushrod tunnels and the head gasket has been sufficiently deformed when the head was not properly torqued.

Could be the oil is coming from the front rocker covers. In your last picture it looks like there is a stain coming out of the cover. On mine it runs down and accumulates in about the same area. It seems to get blown off or gets cooked off by the exhaust ports and accumulates on the fins below them. I though mine had a blown head gasket when I saw it the first time.
The front rocker covers are prone to leak for several reason. First the gaskets are often too big and create a dam inside the bottom of the cover that fills with oil and then leaks out. Trim the inside gasket edge at the bottom with an exacto knife to the same thickness of the cover flange. Oil also leaks up the mounting studs, pull them and use some thread sealer on them. I also use fiber washers under the bolts on the bottom studs. Make sure the studs haven't pulled up metal so the cover doesn't sit flat.
Third the covers warp if they were ever over tightened, flatten the mounting surfaces of the cover on a piece of glass with fine grit sandpaper glued to it. I use gasket cement and attach the gasket to the cover and then grease on the side towards the engine so you can remove the coverr to adjust the valves and save the gasket.
I'd give these a shot, they solved my leaking problem. I was getting tired of coming home with an oily boot. With luck it might solve your problem, if not you will have at least headed off potential leak down the road.

Locktite yes after through cleaning with MEK solvent. Do not breath fumes. :|

If leaks at gasket seam then by far the easiest lasting reusable solution on the thick red soft sillycon one.