Airbox drain pipe!

TonyA said:

Hello , yes cold checks are a go ! When the bike has been sitting for many hours or day and is stone cold I am reading the bolt head only covered . After it is up and running I get about 20 mm of oil on the stick. The cut marks would be a nice touch , but not necessary. If my buddy was a machinist I would have a whole new stick cut out of stainless. So there you have it , the bolt head is my low mark and 20 mm up is my thumb width . Simple , easy and inexpensive !!! I wish you luck Britfan , I hope your bike keeps running and running good ... The bike may be expensive but I am still cheap ! I am going to start a new thread after this weekend . I will report back on air box oil , and oil level stabilization first though.

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Tony and ALL

When you get the measurements worked out let me know. I own a machine shop and two 961 SF's. I will make a short run of your dipstick modified parts out of stainless and distribute to our fellow 961 owners (no charge)

Thanks for doing all the homework on this issue. As I stated earlier in this thread, I have been hit by this problem (excess oil in the airbox) and have fouled an air cleaner. I have talked to several dealers about a new air cleaner element, and no one has a unit in stock. I am actually getting new parts from Krazy Horse in the UK. I am ordering a short set of pipes from them, and they were more than happy to help me with other parts. (Dozer helped with contact info at Krazy Horse, Thanks Dozer)

Additionally, I am getting 2 new primary gaskets, so I can remove the primary cover and take a look at the starter system (ring and pinion gears) to see if that can be improved. My shop is production gear manufacturing facility. We make gear boxes now with a gear tooth feature that helps synchronize engagement of gears. I also want to look at the ring gear mount, Richard 7 has posted some observations that I would like to look at in detail and see if something can be done about the mounting of the ring gear. I will update my findings once I get the system dismantled.

Hello G81 , I will report back after my test run this weekend. Thanks for the help and interest.

Britfan60 said:

Let us know if you can do cold checks. How convenient that would be. Great info, TonyA. Are you going to cut level marks or leave the stick as is?

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Hello Britfan and everyone, I wanted to get back to you guys and report a finding about cold oil level checks. After a full 24 hours of sitting idle the cold oil level has dropped further into the tank out of reach of the longer dipstick bolt. Using a probe I measured ~ 25 mm of oil at the bottom of the tank. This is measured along the axis of the fill cap port , so not in a straight line and the bike is on its tires straight up , no stand. So , cold level checks are a NO GO , you can see the oil in the bottom of the tank with some light. I will continue to monitor this until this weekend to see if it drops further. At this point , cold level checks will require an even longer dipstick , maybe too long for most people . This is something that can be discussed with other members . Anyway , my goal is to get an accurate measurement of the 2.5 Liter oil fill and to be able to measure it on long trips as (if) it drops further.

Apologies in advance, but this thread is bordering on silly. It's just not that complicated.

Don't overfill. Follow procedures in manual to check oil and keep it near the low mark on the dipstick. If you can't read the level on the dipstick, get a paper towel and check where the dipstick is wet. Check the breather tube and unplug/drain on a similar schedule as oiling the drive chain, or just leave the plug out so it drains on its own.

In 2,500 miles, mine used a little more than 1/2 a quart, so it's not like you need to check the oil level every time you ride.

I understand and agree that the plug should have been noted in the owners manual.

Hello , I have returned from my 2.5 liter oil fill trip last weekend and I have some news to report. I am still getting oil in the air box. In fact I drained about 150 ml from it after 150 mile trip. So , At this point I will take it out one more time and see how much comes out again . If the oil level is a factor , How low are you willing to run it ? 2 liters ? This may not be the answer I am looking for , I think the oil discharge has more to do with the location and design of the oil breather baffle in the rocker box. A heavier oil may help say 20w50 and keeping the revs down say less than 4000 rpm. Make no mistake , there is no shortage of oil in the rocker box . Those push rods carry plenty of oil up there! Also , a different approach could be to redirect the crankcase pressure away from the rocker box , this will reduce the air/blowby pumping out where all the oil is splashing/spitting . Who knows , maybe we will find that the bulk of the oil is coming from the crankcase ! Initially it seems that the correct components are in place in the engine . There is a windage tray in the crankcase by the breather outlet and there is a baffle in the rocker box right before where the hose leads out to the airbox. At this point , My oil level is no where near the oil tank vent near the inside top of the frame . I still think a longer dipstick will be beneficial for me , so I will keep mine longer just for checking . I will report back one last time to give the final dip stick length details for those who want to know.

Thank you for sharing this info.

TonyA said:

Britfan60 said:

Let us know if you can do cold checks. How convenient that would be. Great info, TonyA. Are you going to cut level marks or leave the stick as is?

Click to expand...

Hello Britfan and everyone, I wanted to get back to you guys and report a finding about cold oil level checks. After a full 24 hours of sitting idle the cold oil level has dropped further into the tank out of reach of the longer dipstick bolt. Using a probe I measured ~ 25 mm of oil at the bottom of the tank. This is measured along the axis of the fill cap port , so not in a straight line and the bike is on its tires straight up , no stand. So , cold level checks are a NO GO , you can see the oil in the bottom of the tank with some light. I will continue to monitor this until this weekend to see if it drops further. At this point , cold level checks will require an even longer dipstick , maybe too long for most people . This is something that can be discussed with other members . Anyway , my goal is to get an accurate measurement of the 2.5 Liter oil fill and to be able to measure it on long trips as (if) it drops further.

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There is no way to cold check the oil level with any reasonable accuracy. After 72 hours sitting with no use , I can see the bottom of the oil tank. I repeat I can see the bottom of the oil tank. Almost all of the oil has drained back down into the engine. cold checks are a NO GO...

That's bad news.
A cold check in the morning would have been a nice substitute to having to start her up and go throught the standard measurng drill.

Thanks for the update.

Now I have 2 Nortons that wetsump. :lol:

We can get a long antisump-valve thread/argument going here too :mrgreen:
Roughly how much oil is draining down overnight?
Glen

You would have to measure yours . Like I said this took 3 full days. After 1 day I had about 25mm oil left in the bottom of the tank. Listen folks , I am not complaining about this ! This is NOT a problem . The bike can be started , and ridden . Within 10-15 seconds the oil tank is full again... The only reason I even mention it is because others have asked about a cold level oil check .

BritTwit said:

That's bad news.
A cold check in the morning would have been a nice substitute to having to start her up and go throught the standard measurng drill.

Thanks for the update.

Now I have 2 Nortons that wetsump. :lol:

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Why would you do a cold check in the morning, I do a check at engine shut down, in the morning I'm ready to go!

right -o

So how many revolutions will the engine do before the oil is pushed back up to the oil tank.This is oil starvation at start up,the wet slumping will only get worse as the pump will run dry as all the oil is in the sump !!!!!

Just relax , There was oil still at the rear of the tank. When the bike is on its wheels the rear of the frame is lower than the steering head. Just put the bike on the rear paddock stand and you will see the oil come to the front of the frame. This is nothing to worry about ! Please ride and enjoy your 961..

TonyA said:

As you can see from the image , the factory dipstick is 110mm long from the bottom of the threaded cap to the end of the stick . The high and low lines are separated by 25 mm center to center (just under an 1 in.) In my case , when my bike is filled with 2.5 L of engine oil I am slightly below the bottom of the Norton dipstick. My solution for now is to install the longer screw in place of the dip stick. What I have found is that the shorter screw does not give me more than about the head of the screw oil reading , this may be enough for most who like this idea. I am going to use the longer screw , as this will give me a longer period to monitor my oil should my bike continue to consume/discharge the oil. The finished lengths are ( ~ 125 mm ) for the 140 mm screw and ( ~ 135 mm ) for the 150 mm screw . This is a 25 mm longer reach into the oil tank , I am satisfied .

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The final test is finished and the results are in. I have found no improvement in the amount of oil (rate or quantity) that is discharged into the air box while riding with this longer stick and lower 2.5 L oil level. I ran the bike for several trips until the oil was at the bottom of the long dip stick. (That would be 25 mm below the end of the Factory Norton Dip Stick) It seems to be more related to the way the bike is driven more than anything . For example , If I drive around easily at 55 MPH , no hard acceleration . I will have less oil in the air box at the end of the ride. If I run at sustained high speeds say 80 to 100 mph or more , I will have more oil in the air box . I can expect 1 ml of oil per mile driven discharged in to the air box if I spin it long and hard. OK , now for the good news . With this longer dip stick , I can monitor the oil level for an additional ~ 750 ml . This is good new for those who want to take super long trips . You can have the confidence knowing there is still oil in there . Now , what to do with the oil ? Ok , Here is my plan : If I am returning home on 300 mile same day round trip , keep it plugged and drain/recycle at home. If it's a long trip and I will not be back home I run open and lose it along the way . For those of you who run it open , How much of a mess is it under there ? Hope this helps . Tony

thanks for taking my thread to it's conclusion Tony, I'm more than happy to hear the oil in my air box is there from spirited riding and not from over filling with oil. I now drain the pipe after a couple of rides in to a bowl, after a few days the water content evaporates and whats left looks fairly healthy. I've used it to oil the drive chain but 1 mile from home I stopped to fill up with fuel and found smoke pouring out below the engine and oil dripping on the floor! I hadn't wiped the excess oil off the chain and what flies off gathers near the engine gear cog and drips out on the exhaust pipe stupid mistake I know but be careful what you do with that oil it's jinxed believe me :lol:

My dad has done all kinds of testing, with hoses here and there, and bottles collecting oil. It's more under hard breaking than hard accelerating. Also, don't run the bike without the plug. Drain it when you get home. The reason is safety. It drips onto the ground in line with the rear brake, meaning when you are driving the wind pushes that oil ONTO the rear brake disc = less braking power. In 800 miles, by bike has dripped a baby food jar 3/4" of fluid. My dads is the same but when he brakes hard or stops after a long 500 non stop miles, then he drops a lot of oil.

When I met Stuart, he told me to "TWIST IT" and then explained the bike is strong and designed to be thrashed on. And both my dad and I have noticed the for days after we beat on it a little, the bikes seem to be a lot smoother.

I absolutely love my bike! I Ride mine every day that isn't raining to work 25minutes and home 45min-1hr (I always take a longer route home) All B roads and once in a while HWY, hardly any traffic, decent enough bends as I go along the outskirts of town. It handles amazing, runs fantastic and looks and sounds bad ass. I agree that there are a few silly issues but they are easily sorted, just see my manuals (head torque, ring gear, Trans vent) and if you are not mechanically inclined or have a dealer 3,000 miles away, it may not be the bike for you. But WHAT A MACHINE!!!!

I went old school, I put a small baby milk bottle, cable tied under the airbox, with my clear washer hose drain dropped into it, just like in the old days....

So it seems that the majority will leave the drain hose plugged and remove plug when necessary for proper recycling .

I find it amazing that this plug and drain option is not mentioned anywhere in the owners manual..?