A kindred spirit

I was asked for more info on the Dallas "MvR" event, check here:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/03/prweb5145424.htm

Vince

cash said:

He's so right, our offspring are getting dumbed down, is it to make them state and big corporate reliant ? I don't know, but it's a bloody sad state of affairs. Cash

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Higher education is becoming a waste of time. It was much more worthwhile once, but now they are institutions of "corpratism" for suckers, taking their money and putting them into debt for years and training them to be nothing more than talentless computer hacks working for peanuts, or working on technology that is destructive to the environment and humankind.

Instead of going in debt for school for all your young life so you can go into debt for a house for all your adult life, screw it, just decide what you want to do and start doing it with love and passion and live as debt-free as possible. Do not buy anything new ever. Be poor. Then you will be as close as someone in the western world can be to being a "free man". Do something constructive instead of destructive. Every old piece of shit you fix up or repair keeps another one from being built in China. Keep your old bike and car running, and even your old computers and kitchen ranges etc..

If you are truly talented and meant to operate in any area, then no one can teach you how to do it better than yourself anyway. You can buy any book yourself that any school will sell you.

I walked into a computer repair shop a few weeks ago, the kid who owns it has a science degree and his father owns the plaza it is in and they needed something to fill a unit.
He doesn't know jack about fixing anything. He showed me a DVD drive that did not work and was amazed when I popped it open and unjammed it and got it working while he watched. Then he had a couple of motherboards with bad capacitors and I desoldered and soldered in other used ones I stole from a scrap circuitboard in about a half hour. He asked me "who are you?", like I was Merlin the wizard or something because I had mechanical ability and could use tools as easily.

My poor old father bought a used Cadillac and after a few weeks the engine started knocking with loose main-bearing clearance. The dealership wanted $5K to fix it, more than the car as worth. I yanked out the engine, replaced the mains and every other worn part that was in the way and put it back together for less than $1500. My father and then sister drove the car for years. If anyone else had owned it they would have scrapped it as being not worth fixing and another new one would be manufactured. This is called CONSUMERISM. Built-in obsolescence for the sake of keeping an economy based on WASTE afloat. Screw that.

Kids with "educations" are not educated. Kids that go to school to fix computers can not fix them if they need more than key-taps. It IS a sad state ......

Western society has it's own definition of "intelligence" and tests for it, and that definition is: Possessing specific talents that are useful to the rich and powerful.

Computers have taken over engineering mainly to figure out how to save corporations money, by doing a job in less man-hours with less material, but the kids running the computer and engineering programs often don't have any hands-on background.

A world driven by an obsession with counting pennies, time and power does not leave any room for creativity or art, which is the home of true intelligence.

Old machines had a bit too much metal here and there, and were labor intensive to manufacture and assemble, the modern world would not think of turning out mid-sixties Mercedes MFI automobiles again, but at the same time they are calling them obsolete, they put them on a pedestal and polish them as examples of masterpieces.

True art can beat the corporations at their game still, and I think the corporations know this and do what they can to hide the fact and make their soulless world seem better.

Look at the Britten motorcycle. Look at the Offenhauser racing engine, it was competitive right up into the 1970's vs. much newer engines until corporate interests lobbied for rule changes to eliminate it. And look at fine mechanical watches next to their chintzy quartz counterparts.

So while we are no longer spending our time designing and building masterpieces what are we doing? We are either doing nothing at all, or doing a rushed and piss-poor job of something for some corporation to fit into a certain amount of dollars or time, instead of putting people and the object of art first where they belong.

It is a fact that in the Western World, 1%-2% of the population possesses and controls about 90% of the wealth generated in it's economy. If you want to look at this another way, you could say 90% of the work YOU do while working for a corporation, benefits someone else. Or, perhaps if 100% of the general populations work benefited themselves, they would only have to work at a corporate job 1/10th of the time they do now to keep things going, and the rest of the time they could spend on things that actually were important, perhaps all the families with two working parents could have just one, then our children would not be nut-bags raised by MTV and corporate propaganda. So the more you live outside the reach of corporatism, the more time you spend on yourself, your immediate community and those important to you. Work for yourself, work in a local cooperative or other institution that puts the emphasis on people rather than concentration of work and wealth in very small places.


I hope this Adam quits smoking so he can be around for his bikes and his wife a few more years....

So I am apparently part of the "generation Y". I certainly dont feel as though I fit into this generation.
After many years of toiling away searching for the bike for me (I looked into the modern machines but nothing took my fancy). I got the cash together and got myself my "first bike".
Owning and riding a machine daily that is just under 20 years older than me is an interesting feeling. I guess I can lay a lot of of the blame for my fascination for the older bikes on my father.
He has always had old bikes around as I was growing up. I have always had a huge amount of fascination in them. Up until the past few years I didnt have the money or knowledge/skills/license to own and ride my own bike.
Now my father and myself spend many hours out in the shed working on the bikes. I should also note, after my purchase of the '72 Commando 750 my father has been extremely jealous and is now on the look out for a Norton for himself.
Many projects ahead for the both of us - '60s Bultaco Metralla sitting in pieces in the shed, gotta fix up his Triumph Tiger, get the old AJS back on the road and registered, and of course always working on my Norton.
I dont think I can think of many other experiences that can compare with just tinkering away on the bikes with my father.
No knowledge will be lost on me. It is just too much fun.

-Rykie

BMW has taken the maintenance to the extreme. Wife bought a new 08 Mini Cooper S. Nothing in the book about changing the oil. Nothing about anything except take it to the dealer when the display tells you and they will do what is necessary. Don't ask questions. What a crock. She had it for about a year and had about 20K on it and still no oil change. I convinced her that we should just change the oil every 10K rain or shine. $100 for oil change at the dealer. Filters are $15 and oil is about $20 and it's really easy to change, even the filter is easy to get to. Every time the CEL comes on, it's $800 or more. I think the CEL comes on even more than my Dakota and that is saying something. Trouble is she loves it, but it has horrible front end torque steering. With the turbo, it pulls you off the road in a curve. Handles not bad except for the torque steering. Feels like a brick on the road, glad she didn't get the sports suspension.

That's what the dealers want, bring it in for service every 3 months and don't ask questions.

Rant over. Love my Norton that I can work on.

Dave
69S

hahaha this is great and so true i sometimes think the same about all the young people today most would not know what a spanner even was and if they did theyd need a manual to operate it Although im not sure if it will surprise u guys but id bet im probably 1/2 to 1/3 off most (i did say most not all) of you guys age, so u can count me as one youngin whos carrying on the norton tradition i sure do feel lucky we have these forums though as ive learnt a heck of a lot from u guys!

That was a great video - thanks for pointing us towards it.

Growing up, it was fairly common to be out in the garage helping my Dad fix a whatchamacallit that broke on his car. I'd hand him a wrench or socket, provide some company, and take fascination in his craftsmanship. I graduated to brake bleeder and oil changer before long, and would switch off with him when the inevitable wrench-slip happened and rendered his hands momentarily useless. I can't say it was "great fun", but boy do I hold all those memories dear.

Fast forward 25 years and I'm all grown up, married and a father to an 8 year old girl. Now She hands me the wrenches, sockets and screwdrivers and keeps me company. Much more than passing along the negligible mechanical knowledge i've accrued is the realization that I'm building fond memories with her. And - when I ever get these old bikes (Triumph and Norton) back on the road, that it was both of us that can relish in the glory.

To me, you really can't fully appreciate anything if you don't put any work in to it. In a good marriage, you struggle through challenges and work through them to get stronger. As a father, you have to teach some really hard lessons and learn a bunch more yourself. With a motorcycle, it's that intimacy gained through laying her out on an operating table and getting heart beating again. Sure, that may sound goofy, but that's what drives me and makes wrenching a rewarding personal experience.

On one final note - these great experiences i'm having with my bikes and daughter are made so much more accessible via the internet. I have a great amount of respect for those that offer their assistance and wisdom for strangers who share this common passion. Thanks!! Who knows if I would have taken on the challenge without the online knowledge.

Welcome to the forum, "house".

Yes, house, welcome. I would never taken on the Phoenix project if not for this forum and all the help received from the members.

Dave
69S

Holy crap everyone listing those high maintenance costs!!!! I use to take my honda to get the oil changed at the dealers, but they have a $25 drive thru service so not too bad. I do it myself now just to save $5 lol.

interstateOz said:

Although im not sure if it will surprise u guys but id bet im probably 1/2 to 1/3 off most (i did say most not all) of you guys age,

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So, that makes you younger than dirt?

beng said:

cash said:

He's so right, our offspring are getting dumbed down, is it to make them state and big corporate reliant ? I don't know, but it's a bloody sad state of affairs. Cash

Click to expand...

Higher education is becoming a waste of time. It was much more worthwhile once, but now they are institutions of "corpratism" for suckers, taking their money and putting them into debt for years and training them to be nothing more than talentless computer hacks working for peanuts, or working on technology that is destructive to the environment and humankind.


Computers have taken over engineering mainly to figure out how to save corporations money, by doing a job in less man-hours with less material, but the kids running the computer and engineering programs often don't have any hands-on background.


So while we are no longer spending our time designing and building masterpieces what are we doing? We are either doing nothing at all, or doing a rushed and piss-poor job of something for some corporation to fit into a certain amount of dollars or time, instead of putting people and the object of art first where they belong.

Click to expand...

this is all sooooo true. I had an old imac that blew 2 capacitors. They actually had a recall, but only if they went bad within the time limit. Of course mine blew 2 months after. I go to the apple store service, and they tell me $600 for a new motherboard! I was like what??!!... that's more than the computer is worth. So I tracked down the capacitors and fixed it myself. Changed them all for under $50.

The factory I worked at, our area engineer didn't even have an engineering degree. He had a degree in marketing just ordering parts according to the project budget and osha laws. We had to do it his way, then when it didn't work we would explain why, and fight with him to change it. He had no machine knowledge, and thought as long as it looked good on paper then it was the perfect way.

School prices go up like 10% a year...it's a total scam. Technology changes so fast though that I think a 4 year education and 6 year are outdated. There is just too much to learn, and schools rush you through to get done within the same time period.

hey!, I resemble that "older than dirt" joke.

Vince

Edited to add:
I mean "resent".

Big_Jim59 said:

We have a broader problem with what I can only describe as "expertism." It seems we have become dependent on the experts. We don't trust ourselves to tear into a car, computer or home repair because that's in the realm of the expert. This position is encouraged by factories through the use of special diagnostic equipment, special fasteners that require a special set of tool to remove or even unnecessary plastic covers that hide major engine components. There is an attitude of fear that surrounds messing about with things too complex for the mere mortal mind. It's not just young people that have this problem, it is adults as well.

Years ago, my next door neighbor, an attorney by profession, fell in love with a little Triumph Spitfire. It didn't run and it looked like a troop of monkeys had played with the interior. He came over and talked to my dad about it. He wanted the car but doubted his ability to do the necessary work. He had never done mechanical work in his life. My dad's response was classic "You got through law school studying books right?" He admitted that he had. "Everything you need to know is in books at the public library. If you need help or get stuck just ask me and I'll show you what you need to do" As an aside, my dad was a machinist first and then later a mechanical engineer.

My neighbor got stacks of books and attacked the project as someone going for their MBA. He stripped the engine laying out and cataloging all the components. I still remember he and my dad lifting that tiny engine block out of the car with a chain over a 2x4 that they held between them. The moral of this story is that he completed the frame up rebuild, got the car running and drove it for several years. (. . .until he broke the crank speed shifting up the on ramp to the North Dallas Toll Road.) I believe that he was more proud of that car then he was of all his academic achievements.

There is a real risk to working on your own stuff. What if I break something? What if I am out riding and it quits? There is little reward in life without risk. The risk of breakdown is over shadowed by knowledge and self reliance. It may break but you know you can fix it when it does.

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Thanks Jim... very affirming thoughts here

rvich - well maybe 1/3 was pushing it a bit too far :lol: maybe 1/2! im 27, nearly 28, does that count as young around here?

Our bikes could well be legislated away if not washed out by new fuels. Deep thoughts reflected here, and then we die, so be aware its all so surreal we are even here. 28 is rather young for this bunch, but mostly because Norton ain't in main stream to know about or hunger for, so you lucked out to enter in this age of ease. Best wishes getting old enough to reflect way back too, but able to make a lot more new memories. I only learned the mechanics side since '99, so old dogs can learn new tricks you rug rat.

im very thankful my wifes fathers cousing is into old bikes and hes teaching me everything he knows which is everything, hes got about 8 bikes of his own, 4 nortons, 1 triumph, 1 bsa, 1 arial and something else thats slipped my mind now that he fully rebuilds himself, and his best mate was a bike mechanic who had his own shop that still has a license to buy from norton or something like that.... and there all apart of the Norton Club of Victoria here in Australia. Although ive always been mechanically inclined from a very young age u need to be shown/taught how to pull a motor apart (norton) and put it back together CORRECTLY by someone usually to learn without to many failures, so im lucky i believe!

Just about everything everybody has said in the thread is true. But as far as I see it, cars, toasters, TV's, computers, and just about everything else are much better now than they were 25 years ago. It's easy to forget how crappy things were and the fact that you could at least take a stab at fixing them does nothing to endear their memories to me. That there are no user serviceable parts inside any of them anymore doesn't bug me. 99.9% of the general public couldn't service anything in there if they wanted to. The problem is that as far as manufacturers go, people like us aren't even a niche market. There aren't enough of us to make a sub-niche. I don't include old motorcycles, boats, or most tools in the crappy list because even the worst ones have redeeming qualities.

It's easy to slam education. The Universities have become vocational schools. Primary education is 12 years of day care. The horror story is that nearly half of the kids in California never even graduate from highschool. Been going on for years.

Bob,
With all due respect, cars no longer require shade tree mechanics. Stereos, TV and other consumer electronics are so much better there isn't even room to discuss it. But toasters? I went back to my 1950 vintage Sunbeam because I got tired of throwing the others out! I will accept the general idea that most consumer commodities have improved a great deal but it actually just works more in favor of distancing people from being part of the process. Except for buying it and throwing it away we don't even think about most of our stuff.
Russ
PS-I know most of the romance I have with old trucks is purely sentimental. My "new" truck doesn't have windows that rattle in the door frames. It does have a heater that will cook you out of the cab, but it still isn't the same!

I agree that there are some consumer items that respond to fettling. They all seem to be of a certain vintage, like pre 60's. Did you ever schlep vacuum tubes to the supermarket to run on the tester there because the vertical hold on the TV was on the fritz? I hated that TV. Defenestration was too good for it. They can keep the good old days. But now there is a very nice tube based headphone amp kit out there that's going to get on the front burner sooner or later. :roll: There's no reason you can't pick and choose.

I have this intern, an electrial engineering grad student. ( who can quote chip numbers and number of gates on each chip from memory) I needed a cabinet built with 2 timers 20 relays and several toggle switches. I hear a racket comming from the machine shop and find him trying to drill the holes in the cabinet door with a 1/2 " MASONARY drill!! WTF
now Im running a 7th grade shop class for grad students.