Seems to be a debate on use of clutch when stopped

If you are in neutral while in any position that you could be hit, you don't have a motorcycle; you have chair.

I've been struck from behind twice while sitting at red light. Fortunately I was in a car both times. Thousands of dollars in car damage each instance and would likely have been fatal if sitting on a motorcycle.

I suggest you never put a bike in neutral at a red light UNTIL a car has pulled up/stopped behind you.

Do you ha

MexicoMike said:

I've been struck from behind twice while sitting at red light. Fortunately I was in a car both times. Thousands of dollars in car damage each instance and would likely have been fatal if sitting on a motorcycle.

I suggest you never put a bike in neutral at a red light UNTIL a car has pulled up/stopped behind you.

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Are we talking about crossroads, controlled by lights, on roads where traffic is approaching at highway speed?

In my case they were both on a local roads in town. Sitting at the red light and BAM! First one was an SUV the second was a pickup truck. The guy in the pickup drove away with his radiator dumping coolant...never saw him again. 30MPH speed limit on the road in one case, 40 MPH in the other.

MexicoMike said:

In my case they were both on a local roads in town. Sitting at the red light and BAM! First one was an SUV the second was a pickup truck. The guy in the pickup drove away with his radiator dumping coolant...never saw him again. 30MPH speed limit on the road in one case, 40 MPH in the other.

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Would sitting in gear have helped?

Triton Thrasher said:

Would sitting in gear have helped?

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It gives you options.

If you see it, and there is room to escape. "Better to have first gear & not need it than to need first gear & not have it"

The concept of relying on another driver to operate their vehicle in a safe and responsible manner is has nothing to do with real world driving conditions.
A very close friend got rear ended while crossing an intersection. He had the "safe to go" light and assumed that SUV coming up behind him was going to slow up.
Wrong.
Teenage driver on a cell phone. My buddy's Land Rover was no longer operable. Air bags saved the kid from eating the steering wheel.
A motorcycle would have been a red lump of metal, plastic and leather.

It's your ass hanging out there so who am I to tell another how to ride.

My reasons?
In my other life I was a firefighter. For every fire we responded to we went to appx. eight motor vehicle accidents.
Any accident involving a motorcycle the bike/rider came out on the short end.
Every single time.
Among the many horrific injuries witnessed I also saw a kid on a motorcycle die. He got hit by a piece of farming equipment crossing the road.
Farmer couldn't or didn't see him coming. Gone. Just like that.
Anyone who assumes a self - righteous stance about their road rights on a motorcycle is naive or stupid.
Motorcyclists have to play defense in any and all situations.
Thus my response on post #92

SteveBorland said:

Mick Hemmings mentions in his gearbox rebuild video that while the bike is in gear but not moving, the mainsheet bush (I think it was this one) is not being supplied with oil and it can be damaged if you sit for long periods in gear with the engine running and the clutch in.
It generally just feels wrong to me to be sitting holding the clutch lever waiting for the lights to change, but each to his own.

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Mainshaft bush . It soaks up gearbox oil , so not an issue .
I select neutral at every stoplight or traffic jam ( Toronto ) .
Had a lot of problems selecting neutral on the MK111 over the past year , was using the clutch in ,to compensate at stop lights .
Then took apart the gearbox to find the neutral selector cam plate button worn with a rough slot in it .
Greg posted that Norton had a new harder button and mated with the new style switch , this changed everything .
Neutral easily found now . MK 111 owners take note .
Enjoy .

Good arguments both sides - now I’ll throw my hat in the ring and try to dodge the bullets . The holding the clutch disengaged and staying in gear is great - until the clutch cable breaks . Ask me how I know …

Torontonian said:

Mainshaft bush . It soaks up gearbox oil , so not an issue .

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When the bike is in gear but not moving, the mainshaft is not turning in the sleeve gear bush, so even less of an issue.

I expect Mick Hemmings said something completely different, perhaps about the bearings that the clutch basket turns on when the clutch centre is stationary.

"until the clutch cable breaks"

Yes that would be a surprise but in all my years of riding, the only cable that ever broke was last year when the throttle cable broke on my 1976 Honda CB400F. It happened in the garage when I was doing a tuneup!

concours said:

It gives you options.

If you see it, and there is room to escape. "Better to have first gear & not need it than to need first gear & not have it"

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I still hope MexicoMike replies.

If the clutch cable breaks you also should have your other hand on the brake, I like that big red brake light on when at stop lights so that the person behind me does see me or the car coming up behind me when stopped, so clutch in and hand on front brake is always a wise move, even in the car I always have my foot on the brake pedal just to have then big red light on the back so everyone can see, I will put the Land Rover in neutral if the lights are going to take their times as with the dual clutch can be a bit heavy, but on the bikes the clutch is very light even my Norton clutch.

Ashley

ashman said:

Funny story with my RM125S at the time my Norton had the dreaded blown layshaft bearing and the RM was the only way to get from my grannies place where I was living to my dads place where he lived around the corner from our local burger shop hangout which was a 3 mile ride on the bike, so around 6pm I jump on the RM and take a few back streets to get to my dad's place, Dune Street the main short cut I did that trip from Sunday night till Thursday night around the same time 6pm but the Friday night I decider to go the longer way round and which brought me up past the top of Dune street, as I was going past Dune street I looked down the street and 1/2 way down was 2 cop cars waiting for me, I must have upset the neighbour hood the following nights lol, well they seen me, well more heard me and I was off, my dad's place had no front fence and able to get around the corner and straight up the back yard.
All hell broke loose as cop cars everywhere looking for that loud bright yellow dirt bike, by this time I was walking around the corner heading to the top shop where we always meet up with the mates and a cop car pulled up beside me while walking and asked me if I seen a loud, yellow bike go past, hehe, I said he went that away pointing to the direction I didn't go lol, there was only one mate at the shop at the time and he knew what was happening lol, he said to me your a lucky bastard lol, didn't ride that bike again on the streets, the cops wasted a hour looking for me lol, never gave them another chance lol.

Ashley

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Yes, can be a problem riding a distinctive bike I was a bit late for work one day, and there was a longish queue of cars going quite slow down the only bit of straight road. I was riding my Ducati bevel (schoolbus yellow and fairly loud Conti's), so I changed down and blatted past the queue doing a reasonable rate of knots. Halfway down the queue, I noticed a traffic cop hop out from behind a bush, jumping up & down is a somewhat agitated fashion, waving something in his hand. Oh well, too late to try to look innocent,so I simply carried on. Arrived at work and parked in the furtherest cornet of the parking lot as I normally did. Police car comes roaring past with lights and sirens, what was that all about???

One of my colleagues was in the queue of cars, and he came up to me during the day and told me that the traffic cop almost fell over himself trying to get a reading on me with his radar gun, failed because of. the cars I was overtaking, then dived into his patrol car and set off after me.

I was living in a small town, and the traffic cops (who were generally disliked by everyone for their sneaky ways of trapping people to write tickets rather then to improve road safety) also lived there, so the next few days I made certain to take the long detour around the town, being careful not to break too many laws.

The only other Ducati owner lived just up the road from me, with a black 900SS. He told me that that afternoon, riding through town, he was stopped by a very aggressive traffic cop and was asked wheere he was at 7.45 that morning! Fortunately, he worked at a factory in the other direction, so was allowed to go.....

Of course I would never do such a thing nowadays, being somewhat older and _perhaps_ a bit wiser..

Triton Thrasher said:

When the bike is in gear but not moving, the mainshaft is not turning in the sleeve gear bush, so even less of an issue.

I expect Mick Hemmings said something completely different, perhaps about the bearings that the clutch basket turns on when the clutch centre is stationary.

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Hmm. I'll have to look through the video now! I was _almost_ certain I was right, but now I'm doubtful.

You're not in any way related to my wife are you?

Triton Thrasher said:

I still hope MexicoMike replies.

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"Would sitting in gear have helped?"

In the case with the cars, no because I was not paying any attention to what was behind me (first rule of Italian driving ! . But on the bike I do watch the rear views in that situation. And, on the bike, it's relatively easy to get out of the way - you can move to the side of the car in front of you or move to either side of the lane. OTOH, on the Norton it DID save me on one occasion in Mexico City where a city bus didn't see me in time at the light and he was locking up his brakes at the same time I jumped forward and to the side. He shuddered to a stop about 3 feet into the space where I used to be...

I suppose this subject is one of those where no one on either side of the discussion is going to convince an opposite number to change their belief. You would never get me to put a bike in neutral at a stop without some comfort level that no one can hit me from behind. Yes, often that means I stay in gear/clutch-in for the duration of the light. Never had a clutch, cable, or gearbox complain!

SteveBorland said:

You're not in any way related to my wife are you?

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My grandma was one of thirteen kids, so I could be.

MexicoMike said:

"Would sitting in gear have helped?"

In the case with the cars, no because I was not paying any attention to what was behind me (first rule of Italian driving ! . But on the bike I do watch the rear views in that situation. And, on the bike, it's relatively easy to get out of the way - you can move to the side of the car in front of you or move to either side of the lane. OTOH, on the Norton it DID save me on one occasion in Mexico City where a city bus didn't see me in time at the light and he was locking up his brakes at the same time I jumped forward and to the side. He shuddered to a stop about 3 feet into the space where I used to be...

I suppose this subject is one of those where no one on either side of the discussion is going to convince an opposite number to change their belief. You would never get me to put a bike in neutral at a stop without some comfort level that no one can hit me from behind. Yes, often that means I stay in gear/clutch-in for the duration of the light. Never had a clutch, cable, or gearbox complain!

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I think I just don’t have much faith in my own evasive action capabilities!

Triton Thrasher said:

I think I just don’t have much faith in my own evasive action capabilities!

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Maybe don't ride/drive then? Evasive action has saved me many times and is required more than ever today. If you live in a congested area you really are in danger if not aware and able to take evasive action. For instance, when my light turns green, there is still a chance of someone from the cross street to go through the intersection not even aware that they are going on a red light or thinking they are beating the red light on the yellow.

Depends how you look at it. Some people may have too much faith in their powers of not being rear-ended.

Triton Thrasher said:

Depends how you look at it. Some people may have too much faith in their powers of not being rear-ended.

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True, and I have less faith today than when younger. Still, accidents: 0 evaded accidents: Many

The most interesting was driving down I95 on day when I notice something to my right at 70 mph. Stomp the brake and to keep from getting hit from the rear, swerve onto the shoulder. Watch the trailer hitch at the front of a boat trailer go by in front of me at head height. The wheels of the trailer hit the guard rail and the boat launched. The boat cleared all four lanes going the other way. I was still in full panic stop and ended up about one foot from the trailer stuck on the guard rail. The car behind me should have been OK, but he swerved to the right into a car in that lane and set off a multi-car pileup.