2030 fossil fuel ban costs in the UK

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There is a road junction I used to go through, at the Swiss Cottage in north London. A nasty junction where traffic invariably crosses from one lane to another to get to the desired exit. I always preferred riding around the thing, and felt more vulnerable when driving. I suppose that in a car, I was 'trapped' in amongst the traffic, on the bike I could get ahead of / around it.

I did (once) ride my T140 around the Pl Charles de Gaulle in Paris. That was an experience....
 
'I firmly believe there is a direct correlation between the excellent safety features in modern cars and the deteriorating driving standards. People simply feel too safe to feel the need to concentrate as much as they used to.'

Spot on!!
 
EstuaryBoy said:
'I firmly believe there is a direct correlation between the excellent safety features in modern cars and the deteriorating driving standards. People simply feel too safe to feel the need to concentrate as much as they used to.'

Spot on!!
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A mate of mine was on a speed awareness course
When asked what could improve road safety
He said get rid of all safety features
Traction control
Abs etc etc and make people learn to drive
Apparently that was the wrong answer!!!
 
Onder said:
I looked at that big Virginian roundabout and the first this I noticed was the gigantic width of each lane. In fact, the whole roundabout is huge. With such an investment would it not be safer to put in underpasses for the peds?
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While huge, they are nowhere near as big and important as some other roads in the area! Except in residential areas, roads here are generally 4 to 8 lanes wide and divided and US lanes are generally wider than Europe.
 
EstuaryBoy said:
'I firmly believe there is a direct correlation between the excellent safety features in modern cars and the deteriorating driving standards. People simply feel too safe to feel the need to concentrate as much as they used to.'
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And the death of the manual transmission + all the new distractions in cars these days. Good luck turning on the A/C or changing the radio while you're driving
 
A counter-intuitive "safety" issue is speed. You hear it all the time "speed kills". I say sleep while driving kills!

When I lived in Germany, I often drove my BMW 535 at WOT (155mph). I was never once drowsy even when tired at that speed. Driving at 55mph, things are happening so slowly on Interstate highways that staying awake even when well rested is a real problem. For one thing, the dashed lane divider lines are hypnotic. and a warm, quiet, comfortable car doesn't help either.

Until the energy crises of the 70s, many Interstates had 70-75mph speed limits and most people drove at 80-85mph. That felt much safer to me than 55.

I've been rear ended twice this century by people who fell asleep while driving.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Lots of contraptions like that in Oxford. My Missus used to take the kids to school in a trailer towed by her bicycle (a proper thing by the way… not some thing I made from old Norton parts in the shed. Although I did offer) !!
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Now that electric bikes are more common, hilly Seattle cyclists are rapidly adopting cargo bikes. That's well and good, except that the sporting cyclists wear lycra, which improves the views enormously on a fine day, from either gender's POV I'm told. The accessories offered in the news articles are so, so, well, prosaic, even downright dull. But all the same, one does have to accommodate the rain. Just sayin'. And Seattle hasn't gotten on the roundabout bandwagon yet.

Those things terrorized us on our first cycle trip to France twenty-odd years ago. We learned "don't stop, don't stop, be predictable, hold your nerve, you have the right of way once in the circle (in theory anyway)." I have ridden a moto in such circles and it is only slightly less terrorizing, as I think the car drivers are less careful than when around panier-laden touring cyclists with shoes and drying laundry hanging off. I have managed to avoid them as a pedestrian so far. The Arc de Triumph circle would be impossible were it not for the tunnels, as an example.
 
marshg246 said:
A counter-intuitive "safety" issue is speed. You hear it all the time "speed kills". I say sleep while driving kills!

When I lived in Germany, I often drove my BMW 535 at WOT (155mph). I was never once drowsy even when tired at that speed. Driving at 55mph, things are happening so slowly on Interstate highways that staying awake even when well rested is a real problem. For one thing, the dashed lane divider lines are hypnotic. and a warm, quiet, comfortable car doesn't help either.

Until the energy crises of the 70s, many Interstates had 70-75mph speed limits and most people drove at 80-85mph. That felt much safer to me than 55.

I've been rear ended twice this century by people who fell asleep while driving.
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Out West, not everybody went along with the double-nickles edict. I was ticketed in Montana in about 1977 for 75MPH in a 55MPH zone. The cop apologized profusely as he handed me a ticket for $5. He said the Feds would stop their highway funding if they didn't enforce the speed limit. Previously Montana had no speed limit except in towns.

At 55MPH it takes a loooong time to get across Montana. Then there's North Dakota and Minnesota... Hard to stay awake under the best of circumstances. I was driving an 18-wheeler at the time, paid by the mile, a round-trip a week from Seattle to Chicago so the incentive to speed was great, to say the least. Decades later, I had returned to trucking when one of our tankers was grinding away up a grade at 25MPH when he was hit from behind by a freight truck whose driver had fallen asleep with the cruise control on. The result was a geiser of flaming jet fuel erupting out of the dome lid and the highway being closed for severl hours as flaming fuel ran down the gutter catching the dry grass on fire and terrorizing the traffic stopped behind. The Hours-of-Service law had recently been changed to allow 11 hours of driving per day and a total of 96 hours per week on-duty time.
 
Thomasa said:
Out West, not everybody went along with the double-nickles edict. I was ticketed in Montana in about 1977 for 75MPH in a 55MPH zone. The cop apologized profusely as he handed me a ticket for $5. He said the Feds would stop their highway funding if they didn't enforce the speed limit. Previously Montana had no speed limit except in towns.

At 55MPH it takes a loooong time to get across Montana. Then there's North Dakota and Minnesota... Hard to stay awake under the best of circumstances. I was driving an 18-wheeler at the time, paid by the mile, a round-trip a week from Seattle to Chicago so the incentive to speed was great, to say the least. Decades later, I had returned to trucking when one of our tankers was grinding away up a grade at 25MPH when he was hit from behind by a freight truck whose driver had fallen asleep with the cruise control on. The result was a geiser of flaming jet fuel erupting out of the dome lid and the highway being closed for severl hours as flaming fuel ran down the gutter catching the dry grass on fire and terrorizing the traffic stopped behind. The Hours-of-Service law had recently been changed to allow 11 hours of driving per day and a total of 96 hours per week on-duty time.
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I remember driving thru Montana as a kid going to Bozeman, and they had day and night speed limits posted for trucks, but for cars they both were posted as "Reasonable".

We once drove 33hrs elapsed Seattle to Minneapolis. Hottest temp on that trip was 109F in Montana. Was so hot we had to stop at a Kmart to buy a mister bottle to keep cool.
 
I found my self dropping off in mid day whilst driving the car twice in the past month or so. It really caught my attention the second time because I realized it happened because I was driving on a dual carriage at a steady 60mph attempting to lessen the fuel bill. Your point is spot on. You drive 75 it is much easier and safer. Sadly I have never seen this mentioned by Our Safety Experts.
 

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KiwiShane said:
www.express.co.uk

Incoming car tax changes are 'concerning sign of what may lay ahead'

Experts have slammed the Government for introducing major new car tax changes which are set to affect all electric vehicles within three years.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
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I don’t understand why that’s a ‘concern’.

Its common freakin’ sense !

Its a totally artificial situation that EV owners pay almost no tax on the purchase (if a business or company car) and almost zero road tax.

They also don’t use petrol / diesel, the cost of which is actually mostly tax in the U.K.

So, EVs are costing the govt a fortune in lost tax income… a loss that has to be filled in other ways by tax payers. In other words, tax payers are subsidising EV owners. It’s freakin’ ridiculous and is, of course, not sustainable.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I don’t understand why that’s a ‘concern’.

Its common freakin’ sense !

Its a totally artificial situation that EV owners pay almost no tax on the purchase (if a business or company car) and almost zero road tax.

They also don’t use petrol / diesel, the cost of which is actually mostly tax in the U.K.

So, EVs are costing the govt a fortune in lost tax income… a loss that has to be filled in other ways by tax payers. In other words, tax payers are subsidising EV owners. It’s freakin’ ridiculous and is, of course, not sustainable.
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Agreed EV owners should pay their fair share back into the economy since WE are all effectively paying the off set cost incentive to purchase..via govt incentive schemes.

How I look at this article is ... in 2025... l can see petroleum driven vehicles are going to get HIT really hard to make up for the slight reluctance to change over to a EV from C/Hunts EV road tax announcement.
The sub article reflects on how British motorists are staying home over this Christmas break due to the current fuel costs....what will 2025 be like. ?
 
Presumably a temporary situation re taxes to incentivise some change.
There were some free public charging stations here in NZ but that has now gone. NZ Petrol cars pay a lot of fuel tax, diesel cars don’t but instead have to separately pay road user charges. I expect electrics will follow suit there at some point.
 
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