Norton trouble

Whoever buys "Norton" will only buy the trademark, and only deal with the bank owning it. The company is history. Whoever picks up the TM will want nothing to do with the tainted decade of the conman's rule.
As Swooshdave says, the 961 has been overtaken years ago by modern emissions and registration rules and the few that were fumbled together in Downington were fiddled through individual approval procedures. They never had a type approval and I doubt they ever passed a noise test unfiddled, i.e. in standard "production" spec. I know how we struggled in 1998 to get the C652 through approvals and that didn't make anything near the mechanical racket the 961 does.
Kenny Dreer's financier Curme did his homework and that is why he ended his adventure in the Norton history. He priced the 961 for production IN CHINA at the time and found it could not be produced at a cost price that made the exercise commercially viable. That was in 2004! Then again, the man actually planned to pay the suppliers- Donington Fall tended to blissfully forget that aspect.
 
ZFD said:
Whoever buys "Norton" will only buy the trademark, and only deal with the bank owning it. The company is history. Whoever picks up the TM will want nothing to do with the tainted decade of the conman's rule.
As Swooshdave says, the 961 has been overtaken years ago by modern emissions and registration rules and the few that were fumbled together in Downington were fiddled through individual approval procedures. They never had a type approval and I doubt they ever passed a noise test unfiddled, i.e. in standard "production" spec. I know how we struggled in 1998 to get the C652 through approvals and that didn't make anything near the mechanical racket the 961 does.
Kenny Dreer's financier Curme did his homework and that is why he ended his adventure in the Norton history. He priced the 961 for production IN CHINA at the time and found it could not be produced at a cost price that made the exercise commercially viable. That was in 2004! Then again, the man actually planned to pay the suppliers- Donington Fall tended to blissfully forget that aspect.
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Wouldn't it be nice if someone could buy Norton and keep it small, making bikes for enthusiasts in the main but still selling to those that just want a trophy machine. Plenty of both about I think, at least two companies spring to mind that have made that work. Not going to be that easy but where there's hope...........
 
swooshdave said:
961 is done for. European Emissions killed it off a long time ago. It's a zombie at this point, it just doesn't know it's dead.
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Of course not.

Blasphemy mode on

Take the homologated, road legal bike as sold by Donington and make it illegal by throwing away the cats, fit an empty exhaust, fiddle with the ECU and off you go.

Blasphemy mode off
 
ZFD said:
the few that were fumbled together in Downington were fiddled through individual approval procedures
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I talked to a friend of mine who was the VERY FIRST person who had a 961 road registered in Germany in 2013.
He got his bike delivered to Cologne by then (and now long gone) importer Tommy Wagner himself.

And he got it with an EU-Certificate of Conformity Paper.

Where the hell did that come from i ask myself ?

Anyway, when he went to the registration office (Strassenverkehrsamt for german readers) to get his papers, it took them FOUR HOURS to finally print the papers, because according to their database Norton stopped building bikes in 1975 and they knew absolutely nothing about the new company and the importer.
 
MxMartin said:
Wheels within wheels....

I knew of Spondon, I knew that SG had been associated with Spondon, but I didn't know that it was the 'assets' of Spondon that were used to bring Norton back to the UK. Intriguing stuff!
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I knew Spondon had closed and gone out of business.. I used to go past the site on a regular basis....
 
commandofastback said:
I talked to a friend of mine who was the VERY FIRST person who had a 961 road registered in Germany in 2013.
He got his bike delivered to Cologne by then (and now long gone) importer Tommy Wagner himself.

And he got it with an EU-Certificate of Conformity Paper.

Where the hell did that come from i ask myself ?

Anyway, when he went to the registration office (Strassenverkehrsamt for german readers) to get his papers, it took them FOUR HOURS to finally print the papers, because according to their database Norton stopped building bikes in 1975 and they knew absolutely nothing about the new company and the importer.
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Our Tommy is resourceful but not to the extent of Mr G. Tellingly he gave his importership up when he realized warranty claim forms got him no reaction from Downington, let alone reimbursements. Given he is about ten miles from my German shop I wonder why clever Tommy didn't ask me why I didn't apply to become an importer. I could have told him the reasons then. Not asking cost him a lot of money. Some people are too clever for their own good.
 
Godet and John Mossey build new Egli Vincent type motorcycles, carbureted, no catalytic convertor, O2 sensors, ECU or ABS.
These bikes are sold into Europe, the UK, North America and Australia.
They don't conform to Euro anything.
How do they do it?
Why couldn't Norton do the same?

Glen
 
worntorn said:
Godet and John Mossey build new Egli Vincent type motorcycles, carbureted, no catalytic convertor, O2 sensors, ECU or ABS.
These bikes are sold into Europe, the UK, North America and Australia.
They don't conform to Euro anything.
How do they do it?
Why couldn't Norton do the same?

Glen
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Probably for very low production quantities.

Didn’t Norvil at one time have a carve out from the British government for producing 100 units of 750/850’s assembled from spare parts?
 
dennisgb said:
Numbers of money lost is $30-50MM if you count bike deposits...that was my point about the name. Buyer would have to make good on the lost money. I’m fully aware that the name has been bought and sold many times. :eek:
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Swissair had to change its name after the grounding in 2001 and following bankruptcy to SWISS so that the new company did not have to take over the debts. But I guess with Norton things might be a bit different. NORT wouldn’t be a nice name either...
 
worntorn said:
Godet and John Mossey build new Egli Vincent type motorcycles, carbureted, no catalytic convertor, O2 sensors, ECU or ABS.
These bikes are sold into Europe, the UK, North America and Australia.
They don't conform to Euro anything.
How do they do it?
Why couldn't Norton do the same?

Glen
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I actually thought that was how they did it in the UK. The bikes that came to Norway were leaned out to the point were they couldn't pull a pram. When they ran at all.
Extract from the VCA:
National Small Series Type Approval (NSSTA)
(National Small Series Type Approval) is a UK national scheme for low volume manufacturers who intend to sell only in the UK. The advantages of NSSTA are relaxed technical requirements for some subjects, a more pragmatic approach to the Conformity of Production (CoP) requirements, and reduction in administrative requirements. Like ECWVTA, once the design is approved, individual vehicles do not need to be tested.
 
worntorn said:
Godet and John Mossey build new Egli Vincent type motorcycles, carbureted, no catalytic convertor, O2 sensors, ECU or ABS.
These bikes are sold into Europe, the UK, North America and Australia.
They don't conform to Euro anything.
How do they do it?
Why couldn't Norton do the same?

Glen
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Building and selling are different than registering. Many states would not allow you to register a new bike for road use if it can't pass emissions. Or you get an exception. For one off bikes it's a little easier, but Norton wouldn't want to sell one or two bikes a year.
 
Most "new old" bikes are sold as "old". The so-called "new" Commandos by a Midlands "Norton Spares Specialist" were declared as "1971 bikes" for Germany so they could be registered. Which indeed most of their components were- they were nothing but restored old bikes. I know, I saw half a dozen at a dealers years ago, you cold tell the main castings were bead-blasted old ones. I am sure the same trick was used with "new" Vincents etc.
 
ZFD said:
Most "new old" bikes are sold as "old". The so-called "new" Commandos by a Midlands "Norton Spares Specialist" were declared as "1971 bikes" for Germany so they could be registered. Which indeed most of their components were- they were nothing but restored old bikes. I know, I saw half a dozen at a dealers years ago, you cold tell the main castings were bead-blasted old ones. I am sure the same trick was used with "new" Vincents etc.
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In the case of Godet Egli Vincents, that is what I've been told, they might be registered as a1952 Series C Vincent Rapide.
The interesting thing is they look nothing like a 1952 Vincent and are made of all new parts.
I don't know how many they build, but between Godet and Mossey it's a lot more than 1 per year.

Glen
 
Godet no longer does such ‘new old’ builds. The only bikes they do from now on are new and registered as such.

To do this they have to have left hand gearchange, indicators, mirrors. So they clearly have to conform to some rules, but I’m not at all sure what and how.
 
Raphi said:
Swissair had to change its name after the grounding in 2001 and following bankruptcy to SWISS so that the new company did not have to take over the debts. But I guess with Norton things might be a bit different. NORT wouldn’t be a nice name either...
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“Norton” is the trademarked name on the tank.

The recent company was called Norton Motorcycles (UK) Ltd, I think. Previous Norton manufacturing companies had different names. Future Norton makers (it seems inevitable that there will be more) will have a different company name.
 
swooshdave said:
Building and selling are different than registering. Many states would not allow you to register a new bike for road use if it can't pass emissions. Or you get an exception. For one off bikes it's a little easier, but Norton wouldn't want to sell one or two bikes a year.
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Every Godet Egli that Ive seen sold into the US or Canada has been road registered. There have been quite a number in the last ten years.
I've not heard of a situation where the bike was unregisterable.


Glen
 
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