one piece rear axle (2012)

[swooshdave]

Hobot stated, with great and detailed personal knowledge of the 1966 Norton Board of Directors:;

If only the Commando wasn't intended as a stop gap make do model till the new rotary made it

Hobot, how the hell would YOU know?

Are you really so damn stupid as to believe that Norton was planning a ROTARY in 1966 when they conceived the Commando?

And that Norton intended the Commando to be just a "stop gap" until they unleashed the Rotary TWENTY YEARS LATER, after they were out of business?

Stop it for awhile.

Your arrogance and conceit in always having an opinion about what you know NOTHING about is stunning.

Whoa buddy, might want to switch to decaf. :mrgreen:

The Commando was designed as a stop gap. And yes, they were looking at the rotary way back then. They looked at several options, including the P10 and rotary.

 

[Hobot]

LOL!, Give yourself a break, its history the Cdo was a stop gap for old style bouncing engines and only thing really norton afterwards was the rotary,, so that leaves my arrogance as just a spoof about why venders still sell Commando's radioactive axles. If ya think logically on this then the arrogant ones are those altering a Commando as if they knew better, sheeze. Point out my errors and I'll eat crow in public. i really don't want to leave the good book part numbers on Trixie but a solid axle kit makes as much sense as the non Norton brake safety spring thingy.

Only fighting I'm interested winning leaves burnt rubber smells not fall out parts.

 

[Hobot]

From Ken Canaga 1/5/2005 5:58 PM

As Mike and Frank, and others in the past have pointed out, it is a fairly
staightforward job to convert a Commando to a one-piece axle of same (9/16")
or slightly larger (17 mm) size. I used to race a Norton Production Racer,
and after breaking two-piece axles twice, did the same. I would warn
against going to a much larger diameter, however, unless you plan to modify
the swinging arm. As the bike progressed from a 750 production class racer
to a 920 Pro-Twins bike, I switched to 18" mag wheels from a TZ-250, and in
the process went to a larger 20 mm rear axle. To do so, I had to enlarge
the adjustment slots in the swinging arm to match. No problem, and it
seemed to work fine, until the swinging arm broke right through the
adjustment slot. It was kind of exciting, but at least I didn't crash. I
ended up makeing a new swinging arm out of rectangular tube, and all was
well from then on. I think it should be fine at 9/16" or 17 mm, but if the
urge to go larger strikes, think about beefing up the swinging arm. And
just to prove that you can never eliminate all risk, I also managed to break
one of the one-piece 9/16" axles during a race at Willow Springs. That's
actually what prompted me to go to the 20 mm axle. Didn't crash that time
either, but it was a wild ride off the track and across the dirt.

Ken

 

[komet]

At the time the rotary had absolutely nothing to do with Norton. It was a BSA project overseen by one of their engineers David Garside. Then taken over by Triumph and then reluctantly by NVT. From memory Dennis Poore kept paying the royalties simply to maintain interest in the company. Otherwise why spend money on the Challenge?
Same number of parts as a single cylinder 4 stroke yet more power. Great idea, pity it didn't go into production years earlier.

 

[highdesert]

The Commando was designed as a stop gap. And yes, they were looking at the rotary way back then.

this is called an "assertion", or a personal opinion

and more importantly, offered with zero, as in no substantiation

It is arrogant and ignorant for Hobot and now Swooshdave to state that they personally have evidence that Norton management before the first Commando in 1968 was then planning a rotary, and in point of fact were so very taken with this rotary idea that they developed the Commando only as a "stop gap"

Proof of how absurd this reasoning is the twenty year gap between the end of the Commando and the fact that "Norton" , as factory, had almost nothing to do with the rotary.

You guys deserve each other, you both pull wild assertions out of the air and conclude because you thought it up that it must be somehow true.

 

[Hobot]

high&dry, please take our blunt boy's way of expressing facts as part of the joys and spoofs of Commando-doom, not as a bad joke on you or the list. When I make a statement here I'll plainly label it as just "personal speculation" or "factual history" or my tested experience. Part of my Cdo hobby it to drag in others via a seeming off the cuff remark or road challenge, then wipe their smug sneers off. Your are not my enemy nor of a Nortoneer status I enjoy changing their attitude. I've already set up my real bait fish that matter some - Keep poking at me all ya like, I Invite that, just more pleasantly-logically is all, so I can enjoy my own setting straighter by you, w/o being mean back. My speculation is that Norton didn't think the Cdo worth much re-design as innate weaknesses were revealed - beyond getting them past warranted period.

http://www.ridermagazine.com/motorcycle ... mmando.htm
Book Review: Norton Commando by Mick Duckworth

It’s those last two dates we’re concerned with here, as they represent the period of production of Norton’s best-known street motorcycle, the Commando. Originally conceived as a stopgap model just weeks before the motorcycle show where it would debut, the Commando prototype started life in London’s swinging ‘60s painted completely in flat silver (from spray cans, Duckworth reveals) with green bug-eye tank badges and a bright orange seat. Production versions toned down the contrasts, but the Commando would always have standout style, in an era when motorcycles still looked like they’d been put together from parts bins.

Norton Rotary club review.
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/history/rotary
In 1969 the B.S.A. Group Research Centre felt that there could be a market for this type of engine in motorcycles because of its simplicity, low vibration and weight, and compactness.

 

[batrider]

C'mon guys knock it off. This was turning out to be a very good thread before this nonsense.

 

[grandpaul]

Apparently, highdesert has better (documented) information to set straight the writers of the books that hobot is quoting (documented sources).

Hey, it happens; let's hear it...

 

[jseng1]

due to improper assembly. I've never heard of any race bikes breaking rear axles.

I built a motor for Jim Siemens in the 1980s. I put eveything I knew into it, porting, big cam, radiused lifters, slightly oversize valves, long intakes, megaphones. It broke 6 two pieces axels until he made the one piece modification. After that fix he won the Ahrma championship.

 

[L.A.B.]

Apparently, highdesert has better (documented) information to set straight the writers of the books that hobot is quoting (documented sources).

Hey, it happens; let's hear it...

The fact that the Commando was a hastily-developed model intended to replace the unsuccessful P10 is not the bone of contention and I doubt anyone would wish to disagree with that view as that is well documented.

However, to suggest that the Commando was a stop-gap to the rotary is certainly incorrect as the rotary engine development was a BSA project and nothing whatsoever to do with Norton until the formation of NVT in 1973.

Of course, if any one wants to read the rotary story, then I can recommend "Norton Rotaries" by Kris Perkins (currently out of print, I believe).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Norton-Rotaries ... 1855321815

 

[highdesert]

LAB stated:

However, to suggest that the Commando was a stop-gap to the rotary is certainly incorrect as the rotary engine development was a BSA project and nothing whatsoever to do with Norton until the formation of NVT in 1973.

thank you, exactly my contention

 

[johnm]

i thought about this a bit more and can think of the following not so great things about the rear axle and brake set up.

Breaking the long axle at the end of the thread. I have seen this three times.
Breaking of the swinging arm clean through at the axle slot. Seen this once.
Brake linings peeling off aftermarket brake shoe replacements. I have had it happen to me once and I know of several others.
Nipple pulling clean through on after market brake cable. There was no splaying out of the cable at the nipple. I have seen this once.
Brake pedel digging into ground when the cable breaks. This didnt happen but more due to good luck. I now use the spring which hold the pedal up in case of cable failure.
The springs which hold the brake shoes in place breaking. I now thread lock wire through them. Especaily on the race bike.

And yes the axle has too small a diameter (as does the front axle)

 

[gtsun]

What I want to know is when is someone going to market one piece high strength axles. I put stainless axles on my bike from Middlelton a few years ago & now hearing the stories I'm always thinking about them while riding hard. I would buy a one piece if it was sold.

 

[Hobot]

Oh Ugh johnm, I didn't realize the shoe springs could break too!. I'll take your alert to heart with some wire next time I'm inside drum. i you would drop me a line on how its done.
I depend on rear brake only, quite a bit, so could hurt a well thought out long time planned Commando - to find out the way you did. In defense of my dis-tractors, I agree, its arrogant to say-think Norton *knew* at the time the rotary would replace the Commando, just that they knew the Commando was the end of an era, so more a scramble to have something to sell in the interim. We lucked out that the P10-P!! ect, where not the last models before the over priced exotic rotary came out that general public could not afford or maintain. Other companies like Indian shot them selves in the foot depending on Gov't orders to float their boat but w/o a dealership network or public presence, so when the Gov't tit ran dry, so did the company.

 

[madass140]

"What I want to know is when is someone going to market one piece high strength axles. I put stainless axles on my bike from Middlelton a few years ago & now hearing the stories I'm always thinking about them while riding hard. I would buy a one piece if it was sold."

In a few weeks the one piece axle will be available. If you break it I'll replace it free of charge.

 

[bwolfie]

"What I want to know is when is someone going to market one piece high strength axles. I put stainless axles on my bike from Middlelton a few years ago & now hearing the stories I'm always thinking about them while riding hard. I would buy a one piece if it was sold."

In a few weeks the one piece axle will be available. If you break it I'll replace it free of charge.

Challenge accepted!!!!

 

[madass140]

there is no threaded part of the one piece axle inside of the swingarm plates. so therefore there is no weak point in thew axle, if you shear off the 9/16" solid axle then I'll be happy to replace it provided you show me the dyno readout of your Norton LOL

 

[gtsun]

Very good madass140, any mod that is to make the bike safer is a good mod. To me my 850 Norton is a way to have a bike that appeals to my like of older style bikes but still very very capable of keeping up with my friends on modern bikes during our 2 to 400 mile romps through the mountains avoiding freeways at all costs so something like this that could save me from going off a 200 foot cliff at 75 MPH is a major improvement. I'm not a metalurgist but please choose your metals well. P.S. I need one of your alloy Dunstall / PR Racer tanks Too.

 

[Hobot]

Almost as good as an oil grade thread, a metal grade thread.

British call em wheel spindles, American's axles. SS and of what type or real rustable steel?

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=129696

commando-specialties-front-axle-t13067-15.html

 

[johnm]

I have only seen one broken spring and it was not on a Norton but decided not to take any chances anyway. The issue is if the broken spring jams the wheel.

I drill a very small hole in the shoe just big enough for lock wire in a location with plenty of metal close to where the spring attaches to the shoe. Two holes in each shoe.

I use good quality lock wire. I loop the wire through the hole in one shoe then put it through the spring ensuring there is plenty of slack so the springs retain full expanded movement. Then lock the wire off in the matching hole in the other shoe. Then if the spring breaks it cannot fall and jam the wheel.

John