WTF now

cliffa · Mar 21, 2022

Stu Bodycote said:
Ooh now your asking. Just keywayed from memory...but its been a while since I've had to remove the cam sprockets, and its also 6:30am so I'm still half asleep lol
Can't say for initial quality, as the bill of materials I have is at time of closure.

Thanks anyway Stu, I’ll have a look a bit later and report back.

ntst8 · Mar 21, 2022

Hi Cliffa,
wow lucky find, nothing like that on mine thankfully.
No taper on the timing side of the crankshaft, i didn't remove the cam sprocket so can't help there sorry.

Voodooo · Mar 21, 2022

Stu Bodycote said:
Yes 2016, and if a factory Naked then your 6th character should be a K

K?
What’s the K mean? If K were the 10th character it would mean 2019. Mines a G for 2016

cliffa · Mar 21, 2022

Update:

I got it apart this morning, and thankfully it's not as bad as I feared. The two sprockets are just keyed on as Stu mentioned, so I was able to pull them off by hand. Both tensioner blades are pretty hard steel but the upper one has a rather abrupt leading edge, however I think it's just the chain wearing against the harder steel of the blades which has caused this, as there are no real signs of wear on either of them. It's a JWIS chain & Interestingly none of the centre rollers rotate even using needle nosed pliers, so it looks as though that is by design. The roller diameter is 4.98mm, but across the worn part it's 4.62mm average, so around 0.3mm on each has worn off ( not as bad as it looks).

I could find no trace of steel in the engine or on the magnetic drain plug, nor in the drained oil by shining a bright light through it. A strong magnet picked up nothing either. The inline filter is as clean as a whistle. Unfortunately I had binned the oil filter before I discovered this issue, but I didn't notice anything untoward. So based on this I decided not to pull the sump plate.

Both sprockets look fine as well.

Ollie has all the later parts thankfully, so I'm just waiting for the invoice from him and hopefully I'll get it buttoned up by the end of the week.

Cheers,

cliffa.

Stu Bodycote · Mar 21, 2022

Voodooo said:
K?
What’s the K mean? If K were the 10th character it would mean 2019. Mines a G for 2016

6th character for a Naked, on the vin decipher Ive got from the factory at the time. Although I'm going to see if I can find another copy, as this one does appear incomplete.
What I really want to know is, what does the 9th character refer to, as it says on the decipher list as "check digit, calculated".

Voodooo · Mar 21, 2022

Stu Bodycote said:
6th character for a Naked, on the vin decipher Ive got from the factory at the time. Although I'm going to see if I can find another copy, as this one does appear incomplete.
What I really want to know is, what does the 9th character refer to, as it says on the decipher list as "check digit, calculated".

I’m going to start a thread on this so we don’t derail Cliffa’s thread.

TonyA · Mar 21, 2022

cliffa said:
Update:

I got it apart this morning, and thankfully it's not as bad as I feared. The two sprockets are just keyed on as Stu mentioned, so I was able to pull them off by hand. Both tensioner blades are pretty hard steel but the upper one has a rather abrupt leading edge, however I think it's just the chain wearing against the harder steel of the blades which has caused this, as there are no real signs of wear on either of them. It's a JWIS chain & Interestingly none of the centre rollers rotate even using needle nosed pliers, so it looks as though that is by design. The roller diameter is 4.98mm, but across the worn part it's 4.62mm average, so around 0.3mm on each has worn off ( not as bad as it looks).

I could find no trace of steel in the engine or on the magnetic drain plug, nor in the drained oil by shining a bright light through it. A strong magnet picked up nothing either. The inline filter is as clean as a whistle. Unfortunately I had binned the oil filter before I discovered this issue, but I didn't notice anything untoward. So based on this I decided not to pull the sump plate.

Both sprockets look fine as well.

Ollie has all the later parts thankfully, so I'm just waiting for the invoice from him and hopefully I'll get it buttoned up by the end of the week.

View attachment 85965

Cheers,

cliffa.

Hi Cliffa , When you get the new cam chain in , can you check to see if the rollers rotate ?

BritTwit · Mar 21, 2022

I wonder why Norton didn't choose to use a HyVo chain and gears, instead of a traditional chain and sprocket?
It would be wider, true, but also stronger, and quieter, and stretching less of an issue.
No rollers to break, flatten.....

Stu Bodycote · Mar 21, 2022

Drop in an ocean when you're talking about a quieter cam chain on a 961....the primary side will still sound like a broken Ducati

cliffa · Mar 21, 2022

TonyA said:
Hi Cliffa , When you get the new cam chain in , can you check to see if the rollers rotate ?

Yep, will do Tony. Parts being shipped from Ollie tomorrow.

He sent me a picture of the parts already, and it looks like an identical chain coming. ( JWIS).

cliffa · Mar 21, 2022

BritTwit said:
I wonder why Norton didn't choose to use a HyVo chain and gears, instead of a traditional chain and sprocket?
It would be wider, true, but also stronger, and quieter, and stretching less of an issue.
No rollers to break, flatten.....

View attachment 85969

If they'd had more money for development perhaps they could have used it on both sides?

slimslowslider · Mar 21, 2022

Looks like a bush chain instead of a roller chain.
Iwis does both.

cliffa · Mar 21, 2022

Thanks, I saw mention of a bush chain, but couldn't find out what the difference is. Now I know

. It explains when my chain was worn the way it was.

TonyA · Mar 21, 2022

Good information , I did not know this.

Nikoli · Mar 22, 2022

cliffa said:
Update:

I got it apart this morning, and thankfully it's not as bad as I feared. The two sprockets are just keyed on as Stu mentioned, so I was able to pull them off by hand. Both tensioner blades are pretty hard steel but the upper one has a rather abrupt leading edge, however I think it's just the chain wearing against the harder steel of the blades which has caused this, as there are no real signs of wear on either of them. It's a JWIS chain & Interestingly none of the centre rollers rotate even using needle nosed pliers, so it looks as though that is by design. The roller diameter is 4.98mm, but across the worn part it's 4.62mm average, so around 0.3mm on each has worn off ( not as bad as it looks).

I could find no trace of steel in the engine or on the magnetic drain plug, nor in the drained oil by shining a bright light through it. A strong magnet picked up nothing either. The inline filter is as clean as a whistle. Unfortunately I had binned the oil filter before I discovered this issue, but I didn't notice anything untoward. So based on this I decided not to pull the sump plate.

Both sprockets look fine as well.

Ollie has all the later parts thankfully, so I'm just waiting for the invoice from him and hopefully I'll get it buttoned up by the end of the week.

View attachment 85965

Cheers,

cliffa.

The centre rib on the slider is to high and is contacting with the rollers. Usual operation is to push against the links not the rollers. The centre rib in this case is probably to act as a guide. The pressure acting against the chain is so high that it is preventing the rollers from rotating and they are skidding. Once the small 'flat' appears on the rollers, they are going to stay in that position, and the condition becomes compounded. The sprokets themselves keep the chain in line, but if a guide is required then the chain 'slider' is in the shape of a channel. Check out other examples such as a Husaberg,KTM or XR500 cam chain guide, or even the old Maico primary chain guide, any other make for that matter. Is the guide steel or plastic?

cliffa · Mar 22, 2022

Nikoli said:
The centre rib on the slider is to high and is contacting with the rollers. Usual operation is to push against the links not the rollers. The centre rib in this case is probably to act as a guide. The pressure acting against the chain is so high that it is preventing the rollers from rotating and they are skidding. Once the small 'flat' appears on the rollers, they are going to stay in that position, and the condition becomes compounded. The sprokets themselves keep the chain in line, but if a guide is required then the chain 'slider' is in the shape of a channel. Check out other examples such as a Husaberg,KTM or XR500 cam chain guide, or even the old Maico primary chain guide, any other make for that matter. Is the guide steel or plastic?

Hi Nikoli, yes that was my conclusion, compounded by the over tightened chain. They are both steel. I have new nylon versions on the way.

Nikoli · Mar 22, 2022

cliffa said:
Hi Nikoli, yes that was my conclusion, compounded by the over tightened chain. They are both steel. I have new nylon versions on the way.

Clive · Mar 22, 2022

I wonder what the cost and interest would be if Ollie offered a full engine 'make it good' service? Most would probably find it prohibitively expensive but I have already spent around £6k on a reliable commuter bike + tax + insurance when I would be happy to ride the 961CR as my main bike all the time if I could rely on it?

TonyA · Mar 22, 2022

cliffa said:
Hi Nikoli, yes that was my conclusion, compounded by the over tightened chain. They are both steel. I have new nylon versions on the way.

Hello Cliffa , Are Norton using the roller or bush chain ? Please check if rollers will rotate on new chain . Thanks

cliffa · Mar 23, 2022

My parts should have arrived from Ollie today, but UPS left a note saying they attempted delivery and no-one was home - the fecking liars.

I had to dismantle the oil pump to remove that ludicrous valve, so as I'm never one to leave things alone

..

Bada -Bling ..

WTF now

cliffa

ntst8

Voodooo

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