What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Stephen_Spencer said:
Mate I read this, thought you must be referring to a different article. Don’t understand what you mean about ‘not pretty reading’?

I don’t see anything really contentious here. Reference to an engineering/development centre in India for Norton, if accurate, is not a big surprise - the facility exists already, producing various small capacity motorcycles. Not surprising if there is intent to develop similar (likely smaller capacity) Norton models in India for the domestic market.

Am I missing something?
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Yes you are.
 
concours said:
Yes you are.
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Ah Cc, back to the conspiracy theories - I remember them well! 🤣

So your contention (and others with a conspiratorial ilk it seems) is that all current Norton motorcycle design and development is actually taking place in Tamil Nadu (if at all), India and not in Solihull, England.

Meanwhile, the ‘massive’ amounts of money invested in Solihull: new factory; equipment and staff, is all a cover to hide/launder/tax evade large amounts of money - all whilst obtaining a back door foothold into western manufacture and distribution.

My opinion only - I think the conspiracy theory posts should stay in ‘The Pub’ thread. But that’s just me👍!
 
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Madnorton said:
In a global market place you don't need two design and development centres.
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Wow, we’ve blown this wide open!:rolleyes:

Someone should contact UK law enforcement, customs and excise, the tax authorities and the relevant government department - which provided taxpayer dollars to support EV development in the UK! They’ve all been asleep at the wheel (again)!

I’m pretty sure that you guys from the the vintage Commando site believe that ‘real Norton’ stopped making bikes in 1978, but taking every conceivable opportunity to highlight perceived inadequacy/shortfalls/failures with modern Norton is one thing, this is something else entirely!

As the film goes, I choose to ‘laugh’ in your general direction and move on. Makes for a good popcorn post though!😁👍
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Ah Cc, back to the conspiracy theories - I remember them well! 🤣

So your contention (and others with a conspiratorial ilk it seems) is that all current Norton motorcycle design and development is actually taking place in Tamil Nadu (if at all), India and not in Solihull, England.

Meanwhile, the ‘massive’ amounts of money invested in Solihull: new factory; equipment and staff, is all a cover to hide/launder/tax evade large amounts of money - all whilst obtaining a back door foothold into western manufacture and distribution.

My opinion only - I think the conspiracy theory posts should stay in ‘The Pub’ thread. But that’s just me👍!
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You've mistaken experience for "conspiracy"
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Wow, we’ve blown this wide open!:rolleyes:

Someone should contact UK law enforcement, customs and excise, the tax authorities and the relevant government department - which provided taxpayer dollars to support EV development in the UK! They’ve all been asleep at the wheel (again)!

I’m pretty sure that you guys from the the vintage Commando site believe that ‘real Norton’ stopped making bikes in 1978, but taking every conceivable opportunity to highlight perceived inadequacy/shortfalls/failures with modern Norton is one thing, this is something else entirely!

As the film goes, I choose to ‘laugh’ in your general direction and move on. Makes for a good popcorn post though!😁👍
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Do you not read the links that are put up here, TVS Motor have actually stated that they a, will sell Nortons in India (they will have to be made in India) and b, there will be a design centre in Honsur - how is that ''if accurate'' the comment comes from TVS Motor, and c, TVS have applied for patent for Combat in India, that is fact not conspiracy. Sounds very much like there is design work already taking place in India.
As for EV's, do the research both Norton and Triumph used Warwick University for development, this is not recent and had been ongoing way long before Garner went to the wall. As far as I'm aware the new owners have not used taxpayers money for that research.
Your knowledge of when real Nortons stopped being made is totally wrong, nothing was made from 1975 -1978 just assembled from parts already existing in that period and or sold, I have access to the records and the purchase records of component parts for that period. Then there was the rotaries made from the early 80's through to early 90's or are they also not real Nortons.
You can laugh in my general direction, but your comment about the design centre ''if accurate'' suggests that you are not understanding what TVS Motor are publishing.
 
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Not wishing any failure, or ill will. 😎

Just decades of business experience. Reading between the lines.😞
 
Madnorton said:
Do you not read the links that are put up here, TVS Motor have actually stated that they a, will sell Nortons in India (they will have to be made in India) and b, there will be a design centre in Honsur - how is that ''if accurate'' the comment comes from TVS Motor, and c, TVS have applied for patent for Combat in India, that is fact not conspiracy. Sounds very much like there is design work already taking place in India.
As for EV's, do the research both Norton and Triumph used Warwick University for development, this is not recent and had been ongoing way long before Garner went to the wall. As far as I'm aware the new owners have not used taxpayers money for that research.
Your knowledge of when real Nortons stopped being made is totally wrong, nothing was made from 1975 -1978 just assembled from parts already existing in that period and or sold, I have access to the records and the purchase records of component parts for that period. Then there was the rotaries made from the early 80's through to early 90's or are they also not real Nortons.
You can laugh in my general direction, but your comment about the design centre ''if accurate'' suggests that you are not understanding what TVS Motor are publishing.
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Yes mate, I read the same article - which I refer to above. ‘If accurate‘, because such promo information may not be completely accurate, or free from hyperbole should I say!

The detail states that TVS has built/is building a dedicated engineering/production facility in Honsur, for Norton. The existing Honsur facility has been there for decades (apparently) - it’s where they co-designed/build the BMW 310R amongst other bikes. Maybe they’re building a facility for Norton within their existing facility - who knows?

No doubt Norton bikes (likely smaller capacity) will be designed/produced there - development work may already have started, again, who knows. What does that mean for Norton Solihull and their remit for prestige bike production in the UK?

You boys brought the elephant into the (chat) room yet you don’t refer to it. Are these references to the Honsur facility what you are relying on for the assertion that ‘Norton Solihull is just a front’ (the elephant) for hiding money and scamming import advantage - that all Norton development work is actually taking place in Honsur? Is the recent hiring of a high profile R&D head to Solihull part of the ruse? A bit of a stretch maybe guys - some might consider that more conspiracy than confirmation?

You post mainly on the vintage Commando forum Mn - hence the throwaway comment about 78. Thanks for the history lesson though ;) 👍!

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nortonmotorcycles.com

Norton Begins Electrification Journey | Norton Motorcycles

Norton is now part of the movement helping to accelerate the UK towards a net-zero automotive future
nortonmotorcycles.com nortonmotorcycles.com
 
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The fact I post here is that when NMCL produce a bike that is good looking, sensibly priced, safe and reliable as any other motorcycle made in India or elsewhere then I will spend my pension (yes I'm a long way from retirement but get a pension now) and buy one. Sadly none of the above apply to what they sell now, and I doubt (as we have not seen anything yet) will apply in the future. We have not even seen renderings yet, as these are normally 'leaked' to the press to gauge opinion early on, so that alone suggests we are long way seeing a model that buyers in the western world would actually like.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
They've splashed out on a posh new hospitality truck....still the same pots and pans that they're pedalling though.
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I don´t hold this against them, it´s a great looking stand. As a Norton owner, you would wish for the company to be posh and proud. Some wins are easier than others.
As for the main message and our prevailing sentiment, it´s all here in these previous 30-odd pages.

Stu, can we still hope for the TVS engine analysis video?
 
CR961 said:
I don´t hold this against them, it´s a great looking stand. As a Norton owner, you would wish for the company to be posh and proud. Some wins are easier than others.
As for the main message and our prevailing sentiment, it´s all here in these previous 30-odd pages.

Stu, can we still hope for the TVS engine analysis video?
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Hello , I would be happy with a compatibility list between Donington and TVS Norton 961 . Are they still calling it Birmingham Norton ?
 
The engine strip down was all on my FB Motorvated page...worth a look. The engine is now reassembled and living in a 2015 Dominator SS.
 

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TonyA said:
Hi Stu , Very nice photos ! Can we now say that the TVS Norton 961 engine is generally better made than the Donington version ?
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Not to beat this issue to death, but can you make a visual assessment on any qualitative differences like casing differences of the cases, covers, etc.?
Well, I guess I'm beating it to death, but would still be nice to hear your opinion anyway.:p
 
BritTwit said:
Not to beat this issue to death, but can you make a visual assessment on any qualitative differences like casing differences of the cases, covers, etc.?
Well, I guess I'm beating it to death, but would still be nice to hear your opinion anyway.:p
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Hi Britwit , I think we know some things already . There is now better hardening on the camshaft , better made rocker arms and shafts , better designed cam chain tensioners and generally improved QA of all parts.
 
In general, it looked like a well assembled unit with a few minor changes. Obviously I'm not doing hardness tests etc, but visually it was a well built engine with a few design revisions.
Rockers, appeared the same to me as the R3 or R4 that we had at Donington. The shafts I think have change, with a part number now machined into them that I don't recall being there. Norton at one point did approach Thiel Motorsport, wanting to buy a number of their rocker arm kits....so they were obviously looking to do a bit of good old copy and paste from someone else's homework there lol
Camshaft appears dimensionally the same, although again a part number has appeared on the end, and it's a R1 part number, so I assume a new supplier....and some changes to hardness.
I'd guess at the hardness of the shift mech pawl to be addressed, as we had issues with those.
I also suspect the hardness of the starter ring gear to have been revised as there was very little wear on the one I pulled apart.
Starter motor was a weird rework in my opinon...just use the latest revision Harley starter gasket.
The keyway appeared to have been moved on the crank pulley, retarding the balance shaft by around 4°, at a guess.
Compression limiters fitted to the chain guide and tensioner...good mod.
And I think that was about it from memory. I found the top ring gaps too tight ie out of spec too tight.....with a visual evidence of this on the bores, showing a line on each that needed dressing up. All cases, crank, gearbox, clutch basket etc etc appeared identical.
Lifters are a different supplier, and the anti rotation pins have changed.
But, this was a September 2022 registration, so things may have changed since. I'll never get given the facts though, for as long as a couple of senior managers have a little chip on their shoulder over me....get over it guys (my Cossie will always outrank your plastic Mustang....yeah I know you're watching 😘) 🤣
 
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Madnorton said:
The fact I post here is that when NMCL produce a bike that is good looking, sensibly priced, safe and reliable as any other motorcycle made in India or elsewhere then I will spend my pension (yes I'm a long way from retirement but get a pension now) and buy one. Sadly none of the above apply to what they sell now, and I doubt (as we have not seen anything yet) will apply in the future. We have not even seen renderings yet, as these are normally 'leaked' to the press to gauge opinion early on, so that alone suggests we are long way seeing a model that buyers in the western world would actually like.
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Birmingham Norton’s - Ugly, overpriced, unsafe and unreliable!? And that’s not likely to change in the future?

Gotta love this modern Norton enthusiasts forum. Thinking about selling my 961 now………🤣!
 
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