What’s the best none Norton Norton ?

Considering that BMW pulled the cafe racer (ie it had clip ons and faring etc) and replaced it with a version with high bars, I’d say that R12S is proof of the cafe racer decline and NOT evidence of ‘churning em out’ !

Out of interest, what about the R12S makes you consider it a cafe racer ?
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
They say that the Cafe Racer craze has had its day, but they keep churnin’ em out! Not a big beemer bloke myself, but I really like this R12S. They went for the higher bars as apparently, the R9T Racer S was so uncomfortable with the clip-ons it limited the sales to us old duffers! Makes sense.

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Thanks Stephen
That R12S is probably the only "modern" bike I would consider buying - hmmmm
 
Fast Eddie said:
Considering that BMW pulled the cafe racer (ie it had clip ons and faring etc) and replaced it with a version with high bars, I’d say that R12S is proof of the cafe racer decline and NOT evidence of ‘churning em out’ !

Out of interest, what about the R12S makes you consider it a cafe racer ?
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So... higher bars rule it out as a cafe racer? Who's the arbiter of this?
 
My understanding of cafe racer is whatever you cobbled together to race mates/adversaries from cafe to cafe in the 60's.
It doesn't have "bacon slicers" either!
 
robs ss said:
So... higher bars rule it out as a cafe racer? Who's the arbiter of this?
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It’s an open question innit ?

With no absolute right or wrong I guess.

To my eye the R12 has almost nothing that says cafe racer. The solo seat hump is about the only thing IMO.

To me, a cafe racer has to have a racer (ish) riding position. It’s in the name !

Without it, it’s just a cafe…

The Thruxton is a cafe racer. The T120 and Speed Twin aren’t.

The 961 CR is. The SP is not.

Etc.
 
Sadly, the R12S is still not the Grand Tourer which the R90S was. Will there be a two-seat version eventually?

Stephen_Spencer said:
Literally everything about it/it’s styling.
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Agreed, and some of the details are rather useless, such as the bikini fairing. While the windshield of the R90S provided some wind deflection to the rider, the newcomer's "windshield" hardly provides any wind deflection to the rider in a normal riding position.

- Knut
 
In the famous words of Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing (on this subject)! However, I thought the origin was British riders "doing the ton" between cafe`s and Americans started calling stripped down, race-looking bikes "Cafe Racers". Was it originally a British term?

The story on my MKIIA: Purchased in Scotland in 1974, imported to Pennsylvania in early 1975 (titled as 1975), converted to a Cafe Racer, converted back, ridden to California, converted to a Cafe Racer, converted back, ridden back to Pennsylvania, and sold to the second owner in 1976. This was told to me by the second owner with receipts showing parts of it but unfortunately, no pictures.
 
THIS is wot a cafe racer version of the R9/R12 looks like…

What’s the best none Norton Norton ?

What’s the best none Norton Norton ?
 
Cycle World claims that the R12S "pays tribute to the cafe racer." So I suppose it's all about semantics.
Some of the styling cues reflect CR appearance, but it certainly is not a proper CR.
It pays tribute to the cafe racer in the same way as the Norton V4CR.:p
 
If we take it back to true definitions/origins virtually none of em’ are ‘proper CR’s’ right, certainly not that German pretender I posted🤣!!

In reality though, I guess it’s bike manufacturers/designers, the bike press (and buyers to a degree) that are the arbiters of what is now classed as a modern Cafe Racer/retro - not really we curmudgeonly old farts with a vague recollection of the Ace Cafe.

I’m a bit gutted by some definitions though!! When I fit adjustable clipons to raise the bar position out of ‘the tuck’, my bike will no longer be a Cafe Racer! Even though it still says it on the side!! It doesn’t have wire wheels either…………! Damn it!!;)

Those bars above are a bit ‘flat’ FE……………………….! You know, for a proper CR! 🫣

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I guess cafe racer is in the eye of the beholder.
If a modern representation as it were, is all that is available, well then I suppose we should be grateful for at least that.
 
BritTwit said:
I guess cafe racer is in the eye of the beholder.
If a modern representation as it were, is all that is available, well then I suppose we should be grateful for at least that.
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Yessir! Or all we’d be left with is superbikes that look like spaceships, super cruisers that handle like cruise ships and super-huge adventure bikes with the capacity of a mothership!

Retros/CR’s etc offer real variety, no matter their historical integrity (or lack thereof). Let’s face it though, shortly we’ll all be riding around in virtual silence with a large battery wedged up our clackers!!:oops:
 
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Fast Eddie said:
That R12S certainly is a nice looking bike.

But… in the U.K. it is going to be £18,460… :oops:
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How much was your Vincent?
If it's what you want you'll pay!

...and the coffee would be cold by the time that pig (sorry - hog) got to the cafe - never mind about the race!!🤣🤣
 
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robs ss said:
How much was your Vincent?
If it's what you want you'll pay!
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Wudn’t have paid for the engine build :oops:

It’s all about the relative competition tho innit?

If you want a retro, you can get something just as good for a LOT less, ie a Triumph.

If you want to pay a lot for ‘exclusivity’ you might even look at Norton!

If I was looking to spend £18.5k I’d be looking at bikes other than the R12 personally.

Nowt against it, I just don’t think it’s worth that.

Bike sales are struggling anyway at present.

If you want one, wait a bit and they’ll be heftily discounted, that’s my prediction at least.
 
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