The 650 was probably stymied by the contract with the Chinese on manufacture. You cannot expect premium pricing on a product that uses the same engine as a Chinese cheap as chips motorcycle, even if it is a bit down on HP. As SG's power and weight specs look to have been boosted by his ego rather than by actual Dyno tests even the higher HP in the Norton version is suspect.
I am NOT judging the 961 on performance. I’m judging it on its quality and reliability. That is what I am meaning when you say it’s the best.And that’s where I ‘see‘ the problem Voodoo. You (and maybe others) seem to view/rate a bike almost entirely on performance (with some personal preferences no doubt) - we’ve discussed this before. And that’s just fine, for you. If it were based on that criteria the Norton is not even the best bike that I own!
Simply not possible for you (or anybody) to say a bike is or is not the best - the choice is personal, to state the obvious.
I’m saying it’s the best bike I’ve owned, all things considered and maybe it’s the stuff that you can’t measure via a statistic (or other preference) that you may not quite get - the imponderables if you like. Understandable, with respect, why should the average American look at a British bike for anything beyond performance and aesthetics - some may, I don’t know.
The heritage/history, marque, aesthetic, family link, patriotism, the very way riding and ownership make me feel is as important as performance, if not more. Let’s face it, none of us bought an air-cooled, push rod, parallel twin for outstanding performance! And no, I’m not saying it’s faultless - obviously!
Just by repeating something over and over again does not make it true mate. I do not think the 961 is the best bike out there for everyone. Nor do I defend/worship TVS’s every move - that’s just nonsense. I will admit to openly trying to add a little balance to the discussion though, to drag the conversation back to the middle ground slightly, when rampant negativity abounds and information is sparse. And maybe, give Norton Birmingham/TVS some credit for quite possibly having a plan, even though its difficult to see sometimes. Read what I write Voodoo - not what you choose to interpret.
Feel free to disbelieve everything you have’nt seen - your choice. ‘Claiming’ to have built a factory is a bit of a stretch though, I think people may have spotted it!We might have seen a few re-engineered parts also, but no mind. You are also free to hit them around the head for not achieving all that you have detailed, 3 years into a 10 year plan.
Any chance we can lighten up though. There was a time when we could laugh at Negatron, Optimus, Statler and Waldorf!
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The one thing that does bother me about the factory's news that new designs are coming at the end of 2024, well , how about some conceptual drawings to look at?
I think Skinner was excellent at designing, it’s a shame Donington / Garner ended as it did.
Well then, TVS had better get him a laptop with photoshop, or some other rendering software, and put him to work on concept drawings of the new models, lickety-split!
With respect mate - that’s where we are struggling a bit. It’s the best bike for me for the reasons I have listed. I’m not basing my statement of ownership on anybody else’s criteria.
Really wish they’d have carried the Dommie forward also. That was top of the 961 tree - which sorta fits in with their strategy.
! Lots of Harley’s strutting and posing down the main street. Immediately thought how awesome it would have been to see a Dommie, full throat, hoving into view!I agree with you. She’s a beautiful machine.
The same stressed people should have done their due diligence, which clearly they didn't. It would have been a lot less stressful.
They would sell without issue if they were selling for $9,000 US, like Triumph street twin, or the less expensive Royal Enfield 650s. But at $20,000+ US, only the most well heeled anglophile, or Norton-o-phile will consider purchasing one. Of course, as you stated, this assumes that the reliability, and factory support are no longer issues.
Most of the members on his site are britbike addicts.
I'm with you, I wouldn't pay that much for a seat. It's beyond a plain old ripoff, we are in full on scam territory. I would feel like a total dupe after such a purchase. You aren't being cheap, you just aren't being a total fool for a shiny new motorcycle bit.
Hey Glen, for some reason Norton seem to be pricing painted body parts in the stratosphere whilst I think carbon parts are expensive but in the normal range. Hard parts seem to be priced in the normal range also, although apparently rockers are super expensive. Not sure of the rationale. Can’t really explain it.
!All these bikes are poorly made compared to the 961?
I suspect that's motivated by some dubious joy you get from bringing that up rather than logic.
