Hey Xbackslider, did I get the general principles right? I'm way out of my lane - although I'd love to see TVS try to defend their trademark based on ". . .the excellent quality of their goods . . ." That would be hilarious.
TVS Cease and Desist
- Thread starter Jerry Doe
- Start date
You are not able to see what is coming.
There is another website that I could name thats not Independent, it's run by the manufacturer, they endorse thier own product, but do not print or accept criticism.
This website, as far as I can see, has done nothing wrong, its been giving out free information and diagnose faults, and where to get parts to keep the famous marque alive.
The lawers are just sabre rattling, they should go after the firms that make inferior parts for their Named brand parts.
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Fast Eddie
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The letter Jerry posted was sent to him becasue he hosts another web site which was using the Norton trademark logo. To comply, he had to remove the logo.
It was nothing to do with censorship of content. I’m not a expert in the field, but I’m pretty sure they would not have any basis whatsoever to try and do that.
They‘re protecting their trademark logo, that’s all. Heavy handed and unnecessary? Yes! But forum life and discussions are unaffected.
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You just need to look at the opposition raised against Thomas Norton on the US TESS website, delve into the latest pdfs and you will see the latest court requirements, I don't see NMCL meeting any of them. They have also been warned that their opposition will not apply as a defence against their other TM's registered in other classes in the USA.
The information is public, but if you want the links PM me with your email address.
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Andover Norton have a Licence with the Trade Mark owners for use in certain categories, so they wont come after us.
There is that aspect. So if the owners club want to set up a website, there is no one available like all those years ago, who TF are they to ask for permission to use the N word on a website?
They could always ask for retrospective permission to use it stating that you have been successfully supporting Norton for x number of years.
Fast Eddie
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Bernhard, I think you’re getting mixed up mate. TVS do not want unauthorised use of their TM logo. There is no mention of them trying to ban use of the word Norton, which as others have said, would not appear possible to do anyway.
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Just reading through this :
www.nolo.com
One could argue that the use of the logo for club identification purposes could be for editorial/informational purposes, as it is all about informing and promoting the brand (aka free advertising/exposure), however this would grind to a halt when it came to selling merch with said logo on it. That would require permission - which can be applied for and granted for nominal cost (I have looked into doing this in the past). Every time you buy a piece of "authorized" swag, a portion of the cost is going back to the TM owner.
My experiences in the legal world have shown me that most of it is posturing and making bold statements in order to intimidate the opposing side, then have them attempt to defend themselves at their own cost / peril.
I can see some of that occurring here. It is easier for NMCL's legal team to tar everyone with the same brush and send out a threatening form letter than it is to try to ascertain whether or not any of the hundreds of suspected "violators" actually have a legitimate claim to use their logo.
If you comply - their job is done - clean and simple. If you challenge it - well, now they actually have to do some work to try to prove that your challenge is invalid.
So we are not completely powerless here, but it will likely require someone to make some investment to get them back into their lane.
FWIW
Fair Use Defense: When Can You Use Another Owner's Trademark Without Permission?
By law, you need not request permission to use a trademark belonging to another if it is for an editorial or informational use.
www.nolo.com
One could argue that the use of the logo for club identification purposes could be for editorial/informational purposes, as it is all about informing and promoting the brand (aka free advertising/exposure), however this would grind to a halt when it came to selling merch with said logo on it. That would require permission - which can be applied for and granted for nominal cost (I have looked into doing this in the past). Every time you buy a piece of "authorized" swag, a portion of the cost is going back to the TM owner.
My experiences in the legal world have shown me that most of it is posturing and making bold statements in order to intimidate the opposing side, then have them attempt to defend themselves at their own cost / peril.
I can see some of that occurring here. It is easier for NMCL's legal team to tar everyone with the same brush and send out a threatening form letter than it is to try to ascertain whether or not any of the hundreds of suspected "violators" actually have a legitimate claim to use their logo.
If you comply - their job is done - clean and simple. If you challenge it - well, now they actually have to do some work to try to prove that your challenge is invalid.
So we are not completely powerless here, but it will likely require someone to make some investment to get them back into their lane.
FWIW
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Remember they only need to show they made an effort at defending their trademark. The best way is to hire a law firm to send out a bunch of threatening letters to anyone they can find. Are they actually going to take some club chapter with zero assets to court? Nope. Some will comply with the scary sounding letters. Some will just ignore them.
It would be nice if Andover had a clause that their dealers could use the mark but I don’t think they do.
It would be nice if Andover had a clause that their dealers could use the mark but I don’t think they do.
Jerry Doe
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Actually it’s more. As a hosting company I received a notice to shut down a Norton website. So did the datacenter. I have had to deal with this before. Last time I did not shut the site down (unrelated to Norton) and I was sued. The domain was shut down on our servers as the lawyers were relentless. I know the company that they are using to legally enforce and they will not mess about. Don’t under estimate this.
It would be interesting to know what/how the Ford and Mercedes owners club wriggled out of it, perhaps we should ask them?
grandpaul
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Seems to me it is the "editorial and informational" solution.
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It would probably help the effort if non VIP members became VIP members
grandpaul
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Lawyers are an absolute last resort, in my opinion.
Lineslinger
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Missed it, link?
