K81's are what came stock on my '75. They were the hot ticket in the day. I have used Avon Super Venum's in the past in 100/90-19 and while they worked well, I was never satisfied with the way they fit to the rim. (W2) Could never seem to get them to seat perfectly even around the rim. I thought being a tubless tire with a different bead had somthing to do with this. Maybe it was size. I run Road Rider's on my T150, 90/90-19, front on a W2 rim, and 100/90-19 on the rear, W3 rim with no mounting issues. I'm back to the K81's 4.10-19 front and rear on the Norton though and are happy with their performance if not their mileage.
tire size
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Onder
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The 4.10 TT100 wears out rapidly on the stern. Not so on the front.
If you look at the front it seems too much tyre, on the rear it seems
too little.
My guess is that 4.10 is bigger than original and too big for the rims.
Trident uses WM3 19 rear WM2 front. Wear rate isnt much better.
If you look at the front it seems too much tyre, on the rear it seems
too little.
My guess is that 4.10 is bigger than original and too big for the rims.
Trident uses WM3 19 rear WM2 front. Wear rate isnt much better.
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The first rod link was done by Bryan Tryee to tame the rain grooves on old style tires in freeway commutes. The harder the tire or the harder its aired the more the isolastics isolate but the more annoying road texture gets through. This last year After trying all other different sizes/combos, I finally tried going by the general 'proven' consensus, 100 front 110 rear, to find natural forces are forcing me back to biggest meat I can fit on the front, primarily for its Braking Grip reasons only and secondarily for more mileage. I found handling differences are were insignificant factors to me over these two reasons with the unrestricted factory brake, so don't try follow my advice on tires. I quite riding for like 30 yrs d/t the big city freeways that had oblique seams with 2" wide gaps that'd grab front into low side slams downs with 70+ mph cars just feet away, plus nothing available then could approach the P!! dragster thrill. Weirdest hard surface I've crossed was a old wooden planked suspension bridge the planks ran lengthwise and the wood grain worn away its soft parts and planks weather distorted in random elevation angles and width of seams with polished bolt heads sticking up.
Not sure you are responding to my post or not but for sure that Dunlop in 4.10-19 came as factory fitment on the MK3. It also came in the same size on the T150 dispite the different rim widths. As I recall the MK3 also may have come through Avon Road Runners in that same 4.10 size, I guess depending on what was out in the tire trailer at Norton at the time. I think everthing that fits a Norton stock 19" wears out quickly on the rear.Onder said:
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I am putting a cafe street Norton together right now. I had some flanged 18" alloy rims laced up, 2.15" front and 2.5" rear, the same sizes I run on my race bike. I run Avon AM22 front and AM23 race compound on my race bike, a 110/80 front and 130/650 rear(a special vintage race tire, my swingarm had to be notched out to accept the width). For the street bike I bought what I thought would be a good fit, a Avon AM26 110/80 for the front and 120/80 for the rear(I used to run a 120/80 Metzeler rear race tire).
The 110/80 AM22 front race tire on 2.15" rim is a beautiful profile- I can use every bit of the tire, right up to the edge; the 110/80 AM26 front street tire on 2.15" rim is a horrible profile that I would actually deem as unsafe. The tire is way too big for the rim and looks round like a balloon. Despite the fact that Avon's tire chart says that this tire should fit(on the low part of the range), I wouldn't use it. The 120/80 AM 26 on 2.5" rear rim is exactly the same, round like a balloon and not looking safe for anything other than rolling the bike around.
I actually had Herb Becker lace up the rims and mount the tires for me and his first comment was that he didn't 'like the look of the tire profiles at all.
I picked up a 100/90 X18 and I am going to mount that on the 2.15 front and switch the 110/80 X18 to the rear 2.5 rim, hopefully that will look good, I haven't done it yet.
The 110/80 AM22 front race tire on 2.15" rim is a beautiful profile- I can use every bit of the tire, right up to the edge; the 110/80 AM26 front street tire on 2.15" rim is a horrible profile that I would actually deem as unsafe. The tire is way too big for the rim and looks round like a balloon. Despite the fact that Avon's tire chart says that this tire should fit(on the low part of the range), I wouldn't use it. The 120/80 AM 26 on 2.5" rear rim is exactly the same, round like a balloon and not looking safe for anything other than rolling the bike around.
I actually had Herb Becker lace up the rims and mount the tires for me and his first comment was that he didn't 'like the look of the tire profiles at all.
I picked up a 100/90 X18 and I am going to mount that on the 2.15 front and switch the 110/80 X18 to the rear 2.5 rim, hopefully that will look good, I haven't done it yet.
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As I recall the MK3 also may have come through Avon Road Runners in that same 4.10 size, I guess depending on what was out in the tire trailer at Norton at the time. I think everthing that fits a Norton stock 19" wears out quickly on the rear.[/quote]
As I recall Norton shipped new Commandos with either Dunlop K81 or Avon GP. The latter is what my new '72 750 combat roadster came with. The Avon GP were terrible tires especially on southern Cal rain grooves in 1973. Glad they are obsolete.
As I recall Norton shipped new Commandos with either Dunlop K81 or Avon GP. The latter is what my new '72 750 combat roadster came with. The Avon GP were terrible tires especially on southern Cal rain grooves in 1973. Glad they are obsolete.
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Doug or any one, what have ya noticed behavior security wise with a wider tire on narrow rims? I found the narrower tires on my Combats or SV650 were harder to wear off very edges than wider profile d/t having to lean further. Pissed me off I how scared I had to be to get my money worth out of narrower rounder tires. Grip didn't seem to disappear as much on the rounder profiles edges so got to tolerate the intensity or just not do it. On 170's it seemed like falling over the edge w/o warning and took more pilot umph get em to lean. Peel's deal is to find out what tire combo works best so may end up relacing one size up rims. Right now Peel is fitted with rear 130x18 AM23 on 2.15" WM3 non-flanged rim and still looks too flat footed to me, sheeze.
Any tire that holds air is good enough for my factory Combat, though of course crappy tires are more scarey twitchy and rough riding and tending to induce the hinge on me out the blue but I quit pressing un-tamed isolastic Cdo's into risky states not forced on me so mileage is my priority. I have to learn parking lots stunts on Peel before I can let her hair down at speed so any used up race rubber that can be thrown my way will be fully consumed while savoring the soft compound melting points hardly going anywhere.
Any tire that holds air is good enough for my factory Combat, though of course crappy tires are more scarey twitchy and rough riding and tending to induce the hinge on me out the blue but I quit pressing un-tamed isolastic Cdo's into risky states not forced on me so mileage is my priority. I have to learn parking lots stunts on Peel before I can let her hair down at speed so any used up race rubber that can be thrown my way will be fully consumed while savoring the soft compound melting points hardly going anywhere.
concours
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Matt Spencer said:" but is the retro Dunflop knobby tire a better choice " You mean these suckers , Steve ? TT100 / K81 ? ?
Theser a stiffer more rounded caseing than of old . The ' R ' case , American . being R forACE , er Race CASEING . so it doesnt blow up , or out anyway .
Requires differant suspension tune , perhaps . Not a lot of Pnematic springing there .
Yup, those are the tires I was referring to.
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Rear tires wear out faster than front because the rear tire is always pushing or pulling against the tarmac, unless one is free-wheeling. On acceleration, the grip of of rear tire pushes the bike forward, when engine braking, the rear tire is pushing against the road to slow down, same thing when applying rear brakes. The front tire is just rolling along most of the time except when applying the brakes or cornering.
BillT said:
Curious how many of you fellow Nortoneers put your new "rear" tire on the front and switched the "old" front tire to the rear. I contemplated this last Fall when my rear tire was showing threads....but I ended up putting the new one on the rear. Any opinions?
Onder said:
Dang...I knew I should've done that. However, my original front tire with 10K miles showed very little wear when compared to the worn-out rear. I guess I figured switching the still good front to rear would've meant that I'd be replacing it quicker.
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I'm a bit peeved with front tire wear on my first 100 instead of usual 110 front. Its going bald in center after just putting on the 2nd [new] rear tire a few hundred miles ago. Usually my 110 front get triangled slab side wear pattern after like 3 rear tires. I don't accelerate on rear much while upright nor use engine drag much on rear trying to preserve its center and AMC sleeve bushes. The expense is not as much my issue as the hassle of changing. Usually only the front gets moved to rear as rear usually showing center cords. On normal power factory iso Commando I now favor 110 at both ends. If a significant hot rod then 120 rear grips better and wears longer and don't feel as much a hiking boot as on normal power Cdo's.
Btw I will not buy another Metzler DOT street tire as too scary for me unless just using up for mileage.
Btw I will not buy another Metzler DOT street tire as too scary for me unless just using up for mileage.
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I got my '00 'boney' SV650 in '01 after it crashed its 1st owner early on the Suzuki issued street metzlers, so shop replaced forks and I got a decent bargain while my 1st 14 leaks Combat was in rebuild learning curve for 5 yr. Almost crashed on front street metzler just slowing up in 1st 50 yds in a parking lot. Almost crashed off rear street metzler on tarmac working up some turns on power. I crashed off metzlers on THE Gravel going straight ahead and similar on pasture grass so swore off roading luck on street metzlers till I took corner school on non DOT race tires, then swore off keeping a dangerous sluggish quaint antique isolastic Cdo to be rid of once I got it back together with upgrades to maybe match a good ole bagger Harley performance.
Swore off SV's metzler's and found similar metzler opinions on SVRider and other sportbike forums. I tried a 160 size Dunlop Trailmax hard dual sport deep chunky grooved rear that sucked on Grass, Gravel and tarmac. Rode SuVee with some hot shot endro guys in the twisties - me in mostly scared states of holding back at rear till a rest stop they talked about tires and warned about the Dunlop 206 they'd taken off after 2nd dumping and their tales of others with same disdain, ugh. I finished off that hardly worn shitty dual purpose 206 by a long long burn out in dense clouds of smoke till it popped to the cheers of work crews and passerbys. What most don't realize is dirt, grass, sand > tires can dig in so texture-grooves helps but not on tarmac and THE Gravel where tires can not be dug into bite surface, so only compound and PSI and patch size & shape matter, just like on best wet race tracks.
To survive on SuVee on THE Gravel I now only fit cheap used non DOT race tires, so soft cold, Gravel embeds and does not rub off scratching under fender with lots of noise when cold and on return on heated tires they grip stablize the loose stones under the patch even better but can't hold stones embedded so less noise as stones flung out before rubbing under fender. Its these grippy heated race only tires that make me refer to them as corner crippled fat balloon tires, but I get 4000 miles per $50 tire, IF I use care not to accelerate much ill leaned good or use engine braking on rear. 2000 off center and 1000 off each side to very edges till all the race track melt evidence and side grooves worn away. With these race tires I never had to slip any to leave others behind, then would have my solo fun breaking free with practiced Gravel and race track looseness security. I now consider my SV as much a corner cripple as all the other fat tires buzz bombs. Used race tires have rather good center meat left. I've run 150 to 170 on SV's rear and find wider better for corner cripples, till near very edges then grips goes randomly nuts on leans over 45'. If I head in hot enough on purpose to break free is one thing but creeping up harder harder can surprise ya with let goes - as not prepared with reserves of ballistics to save the day.
Now as to hobot on Ms Peel's unique tri-linked and Roadholder surreality, that literally changed my life and go fast reality for highest breath taking G's in HI Powered Far over turns, these tires by far exceeded all my expectations on and off road. Yep that's right - let it sink in till all your nuts dry up - the fastest wildest insane-est phases 1-2-3-4 & 5 i've ever done was on hard long wearing 110 + 120 Pirelli tractor tires. I have yet to try Ms Peel on real street tires, let alone real race tires, so let that knock ya nutz up to ya throat on what Peel will be capable of lightened up and over powered some day. I'm not sure if they still sell these but its what I'd fit on factory Trixie after I use up the used tires still on hand. They do not grip THE Gravel as well as pure low aired race slicks though.
I'm not only one that gets twisted on loose stuff but by Golly I Never Ever put a foot down while rolling.
Swore off SV's metzler's and found similar metzler opinions on SVRider and other sportbike forums. I tried a 160 size Dunlop Trailmax hard dual sport deep chunky grooved rear that sucked on Grass, Gravel and tarmac. Rode SuVee with some hot shot endro guys in the twisties - me in mostly scared states of holding back at rear till a rest stop they talked about tires and warned about the Dunlop 206 they'd taken off after 2nd dumping and their tales of others with same disdain, ugh. I finished off that hardly worn shitty dual purpose 206 by a long long burn out in dense clouds of smoke till it popped to the cheers of work crews and passerbys. What most don't realize is dirt, grass, sand > tires can dig in so texture-grooves helps but not on tarmac and THE Gravel where tires can not be dug into bite surface, so only compound and PSI and patch size & shape matter, just like on best wet race tracks.
To survive on SuVee on THE Gravel I now only fit cheap used non DOT race tires, so soft cold, Gravel embeds and does not rub off scratching under fender with lots of noise when cold and on return on heated tires they grip stablize the loose stones under the patch even better but can't hold stones embedded so less noise as stones flung out before rubbing under fender. Its these grippy heated race only tires that make me refer to them as corner crippled fat balloon tires, but I get 4000 miles per $50 tire, IF I use care not to accelerate much ill leaned good or use engine braking on rear. 2000 off center and 1000 off each side to very edges till all the race track melt evidence and side grooves worn away. With these race tires I never had to slip any to leave others behind, then would have my solo fun breaking free with practiced Gravel and race track looseness security. I now consider my SV as much a corner cripple as all the other fat tires buzz bombs. Used race tires have rather good center meat left. I've run 150 to 170 on SV's rear and find wider better for corner cripples, till near very edges then grips goes randomly nuts on leans over 45'. If I head in hot enough on purpose to break free is one thing but creeping up harder harder can surprise ya with let goes - as not prepared with reserves of ballistics to save the day.
Now as to hobot on Ms Peel's unique tri-linked and Roadholder surreality, that literally changed my life and go fast reality for highest breath taking G's in HI Powered Far over turns, these tires by far exceeded all my expectations on and off road. Yep that's right - let it sink in till all your nuts dry up - the fastest wildest insane-est phases 1-2-3-4 & 5 i've ever done was on hard long wearing 110 + 120 Pirelli tractor tires. I have yet to try Ms Peel on real street tires, let alone real race tires, so let that knock ya nutz up to ya throat on what Peel will be capable of lightened up and over powered some day. I'm not sure if they still sell these but its what I'd fit on factory Trixie after I use up the used tires still on hand. They do not grip THE Gravel as well as pure low aired race slicks though.
I'm not only one that gets twisted on loose stuff but by Golly I Never Ever put a foot down while rolling.
I think that it's new tyre time for the Mk3 and I've yet to try Roadriders. Apparently, I must've bought discontinued stock Super Venoms when I last replaced a pair.
I'm currently running 18" back and front, a legacy of playing around with different makes of tyres some years ago. I really liked the stability of the Michelins (M38 / M48) that I initially used. I'm not unhappy with the 18" Super Venoms but, partly on aesthetic grounds, If I'm using a tyre that is available in both diameters then I'm somewhat inclined to put 19 inchers back on again.
I have two pairs of wheels. The 18" are Akront TCs in 2.15 and 2.50 that I've been running 100/90 and 110/90 tyres on.
My 19" wheels are Akront TRs that now have twenty-year old AM20 / AM18s on - 90/90 front and 100/90 rear - as a consequnce of this choice, I had them built with a 1.85 (WM2) front and 2.15 (WM3) rear. It's a long time ago now but I seem to remember that I didn't particularly like the feel of the 90/90 AM20 on the front, it had the tendency to feel as if it was going to tuck under.
Things might be different with the Roadriders. I'm undecided whether to go with 90/90 or 100/90 at the front and also a little unclear what the consequence might be, if I choose 100/90 front and rear, of having them on different width rims. Could anyone tell me the actual widths of Roadriders fitted on a WM2 and a WM3 ?
Having re-read this post, I'm not sure that I really expect anyone to be able to tell me as I'll have to make my own mind up but any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
I'm currently running 18" back and front, a legacy of playing around with different makes of tyres some years ago. I really liked the stability of the Michelins (M38 / M48) that I initially used. I'm not unhappy with the 18" Super Venoms but, partly on aesthetic grounds, If I'm using a tyre that is available in both diameters then I'm somewhat inclined to put 19 inchers back on again.
I have two pairs of wheels. The 18" are Akront TCs in 2.15 and 2.50 that I've been running 100/90 and 110/90 tyres on.
My 19" wheels are Akront TRs that now have twenty-year old AM20 / AM18s on - 90/90 front and 100/90 rear - as a consequnce of this choice, I had them built with a 1.85 (WM2) front and 2.15 (WM3) rear. It's a long time ago now but I seem to remember that I didn't particularly like the feel of the 90/90 AM20 on the front, it had the tendency to feel as if it was going to tuck under.
Things might be different with the Roadriders. I'm undecided whether to go with 90/90 or 100/90 at the front and also a little unclear what the consequence might be, if I choose 100/90 front and rear, of having them on different width rims. Could anyone tell me the actual widths of Roadriders fitted on a WM2 and a WM3 ?
Having re-read this post, I'm not sure that I really expect anyone to be able to tell me as I'll have to make my own mind up but any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
79x100 said:
Roadriders are fine road tyres, and in another league to the old Roadrunners. They allow Commandos to track nicely and give good stability with the same size front and rear. I have no experience of fitting a 90/90 on the front, though. It seems not everyone likes the smaller size.
Just to confuse the matter;
MOTORCYCLE.
Imperial to metric tyre equivalents
Tyre Size Comparison
OLD SIZES NEW SIZES
Low Profile ; Imperial ; Metric
2.50/2.75 ; 3.10 ; 80/90
3.00/3.25 ; 3.60 ; 90/90
3.50 ; 4.10 ; 100/90
4.00 ; 4.25/85; 110/90
4.25 ; 4.70 ; 120/90
4.50/5.00 ; 5.10 ; 130/90
MOTORCYCLE.
Imperial to metric tyre equivalents
Tyre Size Comparison
OLD SIZES NEW SIZES
Low Profile ; Imperial ; Metric
2.50/2.75 ; 3.10 ; 80/90
3.00/3.25 ; 3.60 ; 90/90
3.50 ; 4.10 ; 100/90
4.00 ; 4.25/85; 110/90
4.25 ; 4.70 ; 120/90
4.50/5.00 ; 5.10 ; 130/90
Funny you should say that! I ran my first AM26 for a year or so, same size and rim. I got used to it but the first time on the bike it felt horrible, squirmy and unstable. As it wore it improved but I've gone back to BT45 which just feels so secure and a decent profile you can use. As Doug said the AM26 is so curved and has such steep sides to the edges of the tread that you'd have to be at 50 deg to use them even close to their limit. People rate them highly but I don't understand why.
On the other hand, the front 100-90 x 19 AM26 is a great fit and profile on WM3 - 2.15 rim and works well with the BT45 on the back.
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My own bike has WM2 rims and I mounted a 90/90 Dunlop D401 (a Harley tire) on the front and an 100/90 Avon AM26 on the rear not knowing it was not recommended for that size rim. The 90/90 looks right but the 100/90 does look too pointy and pinched, will mount a 90/90 on the back next time if I'm still using that wheel (eventually want to install an alternate back wheel, maybe a T140)
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