The next new Norton...

cliffa said:

• If they are not going to continue manufacturing and selling the 961 why do they have them on the show stand and even more interestingly why print brochures of them?

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Exactly, WTF are they on the stand for?

1. Just to tell Norton fans that the new company wants to fulfill the wishes of those who wanted 961's before the house SG build collapsed?
or
2. We (Norton) could build new 961's beyond the 40 promised, but we choose not to.
or
3. We (Norton) have a re-engineered 961 in the background if demand beyond the "40" is there.
or
4. We (Norton) are thinking about maybe offering a 961 (with a Jinlang) motor if demand beyond the "40" is there.
or
5. Dr. Bob is just sadistically f**king with your head.

" Does the performance figure look more rear wheel than crank numbers "

Norton always quoted at the crank , as theirs was a engine dynometer .

Saw a aerobatic engine refered as 9 litres and 6 cylinders . So this would get a three litre twin . If we're talking about " The unapproachable Norton " & ' The Best Twin in the known universe ' .

one and a half litre pot .



Gotta Recognise the Tradition .

cliffa said:

Many thanks Vernon. A few observations / remarks :

• 44K wow !! seriously?
• Personally I don't mind the Silver with the orange seat (It's only a prototype anyway), but they should have picked out a few other items in orange to balance it. Maybe the Norton logos ? Unfortunately though it reminds me of the naked Blackbird which was available some years back. So if I could afford either (Ha-Ha) it would be the V4SV.
• On the subject of logos why put them on and area of the tank which faces upwards. If you pull up at a traffic light next to a car or another bike and you've just spent 44k wouldn't you (and Norton) want folks to know what it is? Afterall the sides of the tank are free advertising space.
• If they are not going to continue manufacturing and selling the 961 why do they have them on the show stand and even more interestingly why print brochures of them?

Cheers, and thanks again.


cliffa.

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So with exchange rates, transpo, etc we will see 30k to 70k plus bikes....if.... they make it here. At that point you are just buying the name or possible collectability if anything. we have customers that would rather spend 30k-40k on a 70's Norton than this and they already own multiple Norton including the 961's

Plus they need to pass US and California emission. Sending as a race or works bike would be the better bet. Then you can gauge interest.

Triumph has is right. Make a classic affordable bike and if the Thruxton R is not enough then move to the Japanese.

BritTwit said:

Exactly, WTF are they on the stand for?

1. Just to tell Norton fans that the new company wants to fulfill the wishes of those who wanted 961's before the house SG build collapsed?
or
2. We (Norton) could build new 961's beyond the 40 promised, but we choose not to.
or
3. We (Norton) have a re-engineered 961 in the background if demand beyond the "40" is there.
or
4. We (Norton) are thinking about maybe offering a 961 (with a Jinlang) motor if demand beyond the "40" is there.
or
5. Dr. Bob is just sadistically f**king with your head.

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Thats an easy answer. Its all they had to show!! Its Shelby all over again except no changing or hiding vin numbers!

Yep, have to admit the 961 presence plus brochure was a curios one. There was some mention of continuing the 961 or a 961 type 'classic' but they would have to have the New Norton stamp on in, so that would mean changes.

What exactly that means, who knows.

Yep, £44k is a chunk of change....I can't believe they will/can survive on simply selling bikes at this price, but of other plans, they are being extremely tight lipped about. At some point they will have to open the kimono. They can't continue to have huge show stands, announce 'we are back' and in the same breath say 'but we can't tell you anything'.

Lets hope they get their plans signed off with Corporate and can start working towards them and start talking about their plans.

Surely, however, establishing what parts they have and potentially how they might conceivably make available spares should have no such requirement..unless aforementioned parts are being kept for 'their' 961 classics...warranty, service, limited future production.

All we can do is speculate until some official communications start to come out.

Matt Spencer said:

one and a half litre pot .

Gotta Recognise the Tradition .

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Is that pot off an aircraft radial?

• Personally I don't mind the Silver with the orange seat (It's only a prototype anyway), but they should have picked out a few other items in orange to balance it. Maybe the Norton logos ? Unfortunately though it reminds me of the naked Blackbird which was available some years back. So if I could afford either (Ha-Ha) it would be the V4SV.

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THEY WERE GREEN !


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D.o.T. powerplant looks ;likea yamahaha , or other whizz bang .

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NO Cylinders 1.5 litre for a V - Twin .




Oh Well . ONE CAN ALWAYS HOPE . aboveisa SPUTHE harldley ableson , Wes Cooleys GS1000 Yoshiwotsit had a few bothers with one on track .



https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1980/7/1/the-aluminum-steamroller click away , From P 45 . picteures / pages are findable . look what other rubish was in the mag. in that era .

Heres a ' Wot Mightia ' https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/the-other-norton.34241/

NOTE , Ducati used this frame concept AFTER Norton . The Press & Govt wrecked the industry .

THIS LAPPED THE I.o.M. at 107 mph on around SEVENTY FIVE Horse Power , aerodynamic leader also .



Thus herefore & so on , The 75 dohc 4valve , ifitid been adapted less Prof. H. Robinson ,
Coulda produdea Twi the EQUAL of ANY NOW .

AND STILL COULD . A Long Distance Mega Tourer . But more'n 80 Cubes. ( a Bonneville was 40 )
is gunna get to be rather weighty . Therefore a parrllel Twin Britten with no extras, at cost was how the Japs broke the market .

========================================================================================================================================= NOW , ' We ' dont think you need a hysterical twit / Jap Bike entusiast , to design a POMMY BIKE ( Motorcycle ) Someomne with leanings in the decorative trades is liable to be well wide of the mark .
NEARLY ALL U.S. Market 50s & 60s COMPETITION in the U.S. WAS ON THE DIRT . Fancy things that didnt leak oil , were covered in bling & warning lights , wobbled all over ( a rough ) The Road , and tried
To Kill You if you gave them half a chance , were antema to reincarnated ex WWII Er etc .

You Need a CAVEMAN to Design Something Primevall .
Incidently the Owner of that FIRST Commando suffered ? the nick name ' CAVEMAN '

So maybe theres more to it than meets the eye .



Was knactually THIS ONE , the Monocouque , that did 107.27 on the bumpy old curcuit . The space frame was from the sAME JIG NEXT YEAR ( 74 ) .

compARING M'Cycles to AIRCRAFT , the ones to use are the Supermarine & the Hawker . Like the Typhoon & tempest . Sleek Efficent & Brutal .

Pommy machinerary generally . Triumphs Anyway , were light narrow & durable . For thier TIME . Harleys were than run forever tractor engines .
Though the Bonnie & sportster were top dogs for street drags in the mid 60s .

NOW , Whats Needed . Whatever it is , the simpler it is to build , the less expensive it'll be . But ' Top Range ' derivative justifies the cheaper bread & butter
peasants version . Which is less likely to kill people .
The 70s Ducati 75 GT , 750S , and 750 SS being a prime example of EUROPEAN philosophy . Even though Britain now is no longer European .

Thinking the British rider on the Imola Ducati likely brought the success of the desmo to the mainstream western eye , and started the legend .

You can see here , from the lap times , the Jap Rubbish was just getting in Hailwoods Way ;
a UPRATED Commando ( EVERYTHING , as per the LINK . https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/the-other-norton.34241/
is how youd do a Dewcaty witha Knorton , CONCEPTUALLY . Get it to stay on the road , and RUGGED . The develp it lighter years hence .
Not a fragile lilly .





Obviously , it needs a Blue Frame . ( Er , my pre 1964 built Triton had one, anyway . as did a few other things . the duc. wernt the first .
But the OFF ( SEALED ) ROAD CAPEABILITY is imperative . Tho not the current 6 foot travel suspension & sky scraper seat hights .

A Bare Bones Comp derived flat Track inspired - MINIMALIST - device . 90 bore & stroke it for One Litre would be a start .

likewothisis. conceptually . No respect for the modern hyper gocart megamonny comercial no relation to reality F1 twerps.
Sorry , Not . they tend to hysteria . 250f on the dirt'd be manageable . Modern F1 etc etc etc , No.Sorry .

This was a iconic lesser norton 500 Trials . Aluminum . NOW you mention it , the lycombing cylinder - Easier set up for counter rotating flywheels than a parrallel twin center flywheel ,
for Turners " Twin - Single " . Mass at the CENTRE has unique charateristics not entirely emulated by an ' in line ' crankshaft . so twins flywhell more central than possable in a single .

But throwing fixed planetary gears to drive Counter rotating flywheels eliminates all this balance shaft nonsense .



for the new Norton Manadgement , a 500 Single ( or 1500 is possable, now . ) would fit in with there existing Indian products .
Still Better NON Unitary though .

This bloke lived up a hill from us , Drag Raced then. Pete Lodge . thisisa 8.000 rpm custom pushrod NORTON 500 T . or is that a Aluminum ES2 .



So , a dungy 500 sinlge , with the modern oils & materials , still has potential AND Pushrod Valvegear can run past 10.000 no worries, if needed . ( T150 , T100 , 105e etc . Proven )
a 11000 ford running 45 Webers and 11000 rpm sounds intresting . No Idle & pulls from 6.000 tho .

But for ESTABLISHING the NORTON marquee , a TRIALS bike ( or Enduro ) for mega global sales would be rational 7 affordable . but It'd better be GOOD .

thats an interesting exhaust route / oil tank mounting

Matt WTF…?

You know this is the modern Norton thread right …?!

You know this is the modern Norton thread right …?!

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Theyre Frightfully Modern . They were built after the war .

the ' TYPE ' as per the 500 T would get the current outfit into the mass market affordable set up . If they did it right . Based on that concept . as for a 961 being ' modern ' /
Strewn with ' modern ' parts , sure . but , . well ... hardly ' world leading . Like a dew cati .

Matt Spencer said:

Theyre Frightfully Modern . They were built after the war .

the ' TYPE ' as per the 500 T would get the current outfit into the mass market affordable set up . If they did it right . Based on that concept . as for a 961 being ' modern ' /
Strewn with ' modern ' parts , sure . but , . well ... hardly ' world leading . Like a dew cati .

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No, the 961 is not world beating, you’re quite right, but it was never s’posed to be. Though they’re clearly trying with the rest of the range.

But whatever Norton are currently doing… I fail to see the relevance of ANYTHING in your post…

What is very clear is that they don't have a target sector to sell the bikes to, if they do then they are keeping it close to their hearts. The V4 and 961 are poles a apart in who they appeal to, though there will be hardcore who would buy both because they can. The push of effort on the v4 is wasted when the Atlas range and the 961 were the way to progress and iron out issues.

looking forward to a norton cruiser, a bagger & tourer'd be way rad too. I like where Triumph went with the T-bird & speedmaster.

Madnorton said:

The V4 and 961 are poles a apart in who they appeal to, though there will be hardcore who would buy both because they can. The push of effort on the v4 is wasted when the Atlas range and the 961 were the way to progress and iron out issues.

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Perhaps, but Triumph or Thaiumph have polar opposite modern classic twins, and high performance triples too. Both lines have their respective devotees, and Triumph prospers. I don't see why this same concept would not work for TVS/Norton, especially is the classic twin line were as reliable as the V4 performance line.
The company focused on the V4 initially because it had the most mature level of development, even though the design did need re-working to fix known issues. Since the 650 twin design descended directly from the V4, the twins probably also need the same fixes.

Yes, Triumph do but not at 40K plus - big difference.
At the factory opening Dr Robert said they need to make profit, the V4 will not do that for them. Just because something is the most mature design still does not make it the logical option, no matter which way you approach it, it does not make sense.

The way the V4 makes sense in my opinion is that it launches them back on the world stage with headlimes and road tests around the world with everyone clamouring for information. It’s a PR dream. Bad luck to anyone else launching a bike at the same time !

They then use the ‘line’ that the 650s are based on the V4 design, which helps them sell them like inflated priced hot cakes. And then they build the rest from there.

So the V4 is a text book (intentional / strategic) loss leader IMHO.