sprockets 'n chains

RoadScholar said:

snip...
Maybe someone can shed light on this conundrum: a 21 tooth counter shaft sprocket is a popular part, the rear sprocket at 42 teeth means that the chain isn't moving (advancing/retarding) relative to the two sprockets, so it never changes position. Maybe not an issue? But what happens if you go to change your rear brakes and lose the chains original orientation??

** Given the large number of members, on this forum, I'm sure that somewhere there is a member that has a 530 non-sealed chain set-up that has gone over 25K mikes; far from the norm.

Click to expand...

So far as integer sprocket ratios go they can be a disaster in some cases, I learned the hard way when I ran a terrible 14/42/102 combo on a Ducati, had noise, vibration, and very rapid chain wear...but chain length is also a BIG factor and the 21/42/100 combo is not so bad while 21/42/98 is horrible. You can check various combos out for free at gearingcommander.com, here are the repeat contact numbers for 20/42/98, 21/42/98, and 21/42/100...

For a Commando 21/42 demands a 99 so why does the list show 98 and 100, because modern
chains do not have crank links, or at least 98% dont.

Very simple lads the original used was 10B-1 this is a British Standard chains as used on most
old Brit bikes. Go to your local bearing distributor and ask for this and you will get a chain that
can have crank links. OK you will get shit chain but it will fit. Renold chain made a bloody good
industrial chain not a motorcycle product, ring them and they say they do not advise the Renold
for this use. It made typically to 1/3 above DIN. Now 99% of 10B-1 (Renold 110056) is made to
DIN which is a base standard and all chain matches it, even the crap ones.

The iwis not only has a chromised pin, very expensive and hard wearing (have you googled it), and
is still made to 1/3 above DIN. I dont sell it, 40 years now, to get rich I sell it cos I like to sleep at
night.

My next talk is to the Cornwall VMCC early March come to it and get bored.

Andy

andychain said:

On Norton Commandos the crank link on half the range is critical to get best adjustment and I sorry to
contradict but going to 520 on a Commando will require machining of sprockets.

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Part # 06-2764A is a 42 tooth Commando rear sprocket/brake drum suitable for the cush drive models manufactured for 520 chain, no machining required

Part# 04-0010 is a counter shaft sprocket that will fit a Commando G/B that is suitable for 520 chain, many different teeth partsnumbers are available, no machining required.

The only item that will, possibly, need machining (may be commonly available?) is a spacer that puts the 520 counter shaft sprocket away from the G/B, 1/8" so that it will be centered with the rear sprocket chain run.

I can get you as many as you like; I sourced these parts about 2 years ago.

The only reasonable 520 non O ring is Regina and it is not as good as the iwis 10B-1.

Racers use 520 to lighten the bike on road bikes it will not last as long as 530 due to the reduced
bearing area.

Basically use what chain you like but at least be aware of the issues, in UK Brit owners are lucky to have 2
expert chain companies, Sprockets Unlimited who have been around about 25-30 years and The Chain Man
or as my registered company Drive Solutions and I have been in chain 40 years with my father who also
worked for Renold over 60 years ago.

In USA and Oz there are dealers who sell the best profit making items with little regard to history.

We also have dealers in UK who sole motive is profit. Some dealers use my chain for their own machines
but sell Chinese chain to customers because they make vast %.

You can disagree with the things I say and go your own way as it will make no difference to my life. To the
many clients in USA and Oz who have purchased chain thank you and a bigger thanks for coming back
for more.

Andy

Hi Andy!

I have a 20 tooth front sprocket on my Commando currently running a regular non sealed chain.

I counted the number of links to be 50 so that must translate to 100 as sold?

And the adjustment is in the middle so it appears a perfect length chain.

A USA vender tells me they will sell me a 100 to fit my 20, claiming the 1/2 links are inappropriate?

I have read you recommend a 99 with the 20, given that my current 100 (50 links) seems perfect adjustment wise, would then not a 99 be a tad too short?

My chain is wearing and needs replacement, given your answer do you have a web site, how do I order from you ?

1up3down said:

I have read you recommend a 99 with the 20, given that my current 100 (50 links) seems perfect adjustment wise, would then not a 99 be a tad too short?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's Andy's personal recommendation, only that the various Commando parts books state 98 links for 19T, 99 links for 20/21T and 100 links for 22T.

1up3down said:

My chain is wearing and needs replacement, given your answer do you have a web site, how do I order from you?

Click to expand...

http://www.the-chain-man.co.uk/

I'm not sure it's Andy's personal recommendation, only that the various Commando parts books state 98 links for 19T, 99 links for 20/21T and 100 links for 22T.

Click to expand...

LES OR ANDY?

what is problem, is any, with fitting a 99 chain, OldBritts tells me this involves a "half link" which they do not recommend and will not sell?

what IS a half link and what is the negative about it?

1up3down said:

what is problem, is any, with fitting a 99 chain, OldBritts tells me this involves a "half link" which they do not recommend and will not sell?

what IS a half link and what is the negative about it?

Click to expand...

Half link:

All getting too complicated.

The designers, with Renolds calculated the chain length required to give best adjustment.

I know from a bad experience with a Commando rider that if 99 is needed a 100 will not work.
You know who you are if your on the forum.

If you need my web site just google The Chain Man.

Please dont kick the messenger I only talk from 40 years experience. A lot of dealers and chain
manufacturers dont like what I say but none have sued me yet.

Those of you in USA asa50 is a direct replacement for 10B-1 but is a little heavier and please ask
for chromised pins. If you want belts go for it but when there is a cheap and bullet proof answer
.......why. Ask any Laverda owners.

Going for a lie down

Andy

PS Of course dealers will say cranks ar4e not needed most of the time they dont even know how to fit them

thanks for your comments, guys

back to one of my questions if you would, is there any known weakness, negatives, to using the half link to say add to a 98 to get 99

According to Andy, if you fit a 1/2 [ crank ] link with 2 joining links, that is a weakness. If you fit the crank link part to the main chain, with a swaged link, then that is ok.
Scroll back to Andies photos placed on this site last year. It isn't so obvious if you don't know what to look for but if you take a carful look, you will understand.

Some time ago I read on this site that a person who fitted 520 o ring chain to his commando, had to replace both sprockets as well as the chain when it wore out. To me that doesn't sound cheap, especially when you may find the IWIS 10-b chain may last just as long as the 520 o ring chain.

I haven't found a manufacturer who will allow his industrial 10-b chain to be used on a motorbike.

Dereck

Again very simple economics.

Iwis production of industrial is large and as stated they still make superb chain that works well
on motorcycles however when they sell chain to a large OEM they get paid loads of money and
only hear when the chain needs replacing. Give a small length to a biker to fit to his bike and
there are many perils. The supplier does not know the condition of the drive, will not know if it
is tensioned correctly or even if the clip has been fitted correctly. Basically not worth the hastle.

Also as engineers now demand the minimum quality according to DIN and especially stupid low
prices this has taken the overall quality of the product down several notches. Even todays Renold
is not the chain it was 20 years ago. The old adage of "you get what you pay for" is very much
key.

As for cranks, of course suppliers dont like them. Fit them wrong the chain will at some point
fail, fit them right and they are fine.

For clubs this is very easily explained by talk with demonstrations, I have done couple of talks
to Uk Norton owners clubs, not so easy to put into words.

Keri, yes he does buy from me, has obviously followed the chains threads closely and takes some interest.

At the risk of boring you please remember it is not the look of a chain that counts its what steel it
is made from and the quality of parts, such as shouldered pins and deep drawn rollers etc. I am
privileged to have 40 years behind me so can at least spread the word.

Andy

Would it be possible to post a link to the relevant photos please?