Simplify and add lightness.

Rohan said:

...you are just as much a troll...

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If you call me a troll again then I WILL eat tacos, drink beer, and fart in your general direction. You’ve been warned.

Perhaps my use of “troll” to describe lying arse-weasels is incorrect. Can you think of a better term for them?

dave M said:

... full of piss and vinegar about how the Japanese stole everything good in the world and cheated the rest of us out of some sacred legacy.

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In the 80s HoYaSuKa was found guilty of “dumping” more than 1.4 million bikes in the U.S. The multinationals were using profits from their other businesses to lower prices until they destroyed their competition. As near as I can tell this was happening in the late seventies too. NVT had to cut prices to compete with the “dumping” but they had no other industry to siphon money from so they got it from government. When the British government removed the funding the entire industry collapsed. [Other Japanese multinationals did the same thing to the North American audio equipment industry at about the same time].

dave M said:

...There may actually be some Japanese Norton enthusiasts on this site...

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Several “dumpings” permanently destroyed thousands of jobs in the U.K. and North America. It did not create thousands of jobs in Japan because those multinationals were highly automated and didn’t need much staff. The average Japanese citizen probably did not gain much from the actions of the big corporations.

dave M said:

...useful and positive contributions...

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To be useful a post must agree with the facts. Many posts on this site are terribly anti-Commando, anti-Norton, and anti-British. It may be Politically Correct to lie about these things but I am sure not going to let them pass without comment.

[

dave M said:

...managed to keep it in service...

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I was a little worried about that back when NVT went under but as the whole thing collapsed a new company was formed to make spares. So far there has been no trouble finding parts and most everything is still available locally. It is not that hard to find an old mechanic with the proper tools to fix a Commando since there are no computers needed.

Murray, I don't see what your statement on 'dumping' has to do with my statement on the possibility of there being Japanese enthusiasts on this site. We could spend eternity making and countering each other's statements in minute detail but this will undoubtedly produce nothing of substance. You may have missed the fact that this is a site which is extremely multi-national in make-up and that perhaps some may take offence at your jingoistic traducing of an entire race, I certainly do. As a self-avowed historian you are undoubtedly aware that every government and company on the planet tries it's best to monopolise markets, whether this be American agricultural, aerospace and defence products in the third world, or British products in the colonies and The Commonwealth - for as long as they could get away with it. These are just two well-documented examples. Furthermore your avuncular statements that you have owned your Norton almost since Methuselah was a boy is a bit condescending, you probably fall around about the upper-median age on this site, which is documented to have a rather mature demographic, I myself first rode a Norton in 1970. As a newcomer to the site you may be unaware that we have a particularly efficient and vigilant web-administrator in L.A.B. so there is no need to declare what should or should not be posted on the site, after a number of years he has his finger firmly on the pulse and removes those posts which are either too offensive or might perhaps lead to legal difficulties, he does this only rarely, while leaving more than adequate scope for the sort of spirited discussion that we are having now.

If you care to peruse the bulk of posts on here you will find that they are in the main discussions on the best ways to keep our beloved Commandos on the road, suppliers and mechanics to seek out and those to avoid, new products and their performance under real-life conditions, useful modifications etc., etc. Your initial forays onto this site have consisted entirely of politically charged rants which frankly don't add anything to our total knowledge or experience of owning and running Nortons. We will probably have to agree to disagree in our respective political and ideological views. I would however be very pleased to see a picture of your one-owner-from-new Commando.

dave M said:

...possibility of there being Japanese enthusiasts on this site.

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Japanese enthusiasts should go somewhere else to spew lies about the Commando, Norton, or the British motorcycle industry in general.

dave M said:

...jingoistic traducing of an entire race, I certainly do...

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How is it racist to point out that multinational corporations were found guilty of “dumping”? It is a matter of record. Since they were “dumping” to get rid of 1.4 million bikes that nobody wanted it also proves that customers absolutely did not prefer a HoYaSuKa to everything else.

dave M said:

...I myself first rode a Norton in 1970.

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Well, that means you are old enough to know something.

dave M said:

...particularly efficient and vigilant web-administrator in L.A.B. so there is no need to declare what should or should not be posted on the site.

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Well, they missed a few bad posts. I don’t sell bikes but there are still companies today that do sell refurbished Commandos and a post on this site states that vital Commando parts are no longer available. Such FUD can hurt the sales of those bikes. Even the posts that revise history into fiction can harm those companies that are preserving history by still making Commandos available for a reasonable price.

Is there some sort rule that says I can't point out when someone is lying about the Commando? Why should it have to be done by an administrator? Maybe they get tired of dealing with all the poppycock.

dave M said:

... beloved Commandos on the road...

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Are you damning the Commando with faint praise and then following it up with a hail Norton?

Do you own a Commando?

Rohan said:

Carbonfibre said:

I
Greed, mismanagement, and lack of investment,

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What a nonsense statement - thats how capitalism works !!!

You didn't answer if you own a Commando.
Or have even ridden one ?

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The current state of the world seems to indicate very clearly that capitalism certainly doesnt work that well, and in the case of motorcycle manufacturers those who have invested considerable amounts of time and money in developing new machines are still around today, while greedy producers with no budget for development all seem to have disappeared for some reason.

Carbonfibre said:

The current state of the world seems to indicate very clearly that capitalism certainly doesnt work that well, .

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I very nearly added that comment myself - but it adds nothing to the discussion.

Carbonfibre said:

I
while greedy producers with no budget for development all seem to have disappeared for some reason.

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I'm not so sure that that statement holds any water at all - by all accounts, a number of motorcycle manufacturers would like to get out of that business, but can't find a buyer.
So are stuck with carrying on.

And, there is a whole new slather of chinese makers all making their way into the market, so the learning process begins anew. Manufacturing quality there can vary from awful to excellent, it seems....

Murray B said:

dave M said:

...possibility of there being Japanese enthusiasts on this site.

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Japanese enthusiasts should go somewhere else to spew lies about the Commando, Norton, or the British motorcycle industry in general.

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Should this be taken as an indication that a bike which was hastily cobbled together using a motor whose basic design dated back to the 1940s and vibrated like a jackhammer, is in fact vastly superior to the various Japanese machines such as the Z1, CB750, H1/H2? Buyers didnt seem to think so, which I guess is the reason why Kawasaki and Honda are still in business and Norton isnt.

Mr Garner might take exception to that lie......
Andover Norton might too....

Rohan said:

Mr Garner might take exception to that lie......
Andover Norton might too....

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Mr Garner is certainly in business, but not sure if this has got much to do with the manufacture and sale of motorcycles? Didnt know that Andover Norton were making bikes now, but I would think that if they are there is certainly a ready market for an updated and improved version of the Commando.

The last time I looked, Andover Norton were in the business of supplying spares for Norton Commandos, and earlier Nortons. An impressively large range of spares, it must be said.
For a model that ended 30+ years ago, it must also be added.
Or do you dispute this too, since that seems to be all you are capable of.

Do you even own a Commando ?
Or ever ridden one. ??

Murray, you have just made another racist statement that Japanese enthusiasts are not welcome on this site. You have been on this site for fifteen minutes and you have done nothing but post this kind of negative and unedifying rubbish. I have no interest in further communication with you or your ilk. For the record I like Commandos and currently own 4 of them, but I am not blind to their faults. There are pictures of these bikes on various of my posts.

dave M said:

Murray, you have just made another racist statement that Japanese enthusiasts are not welcome on this site.

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Dave,
Maybe there is a misunderstanding here?
Judging by Murray B's odd reply to your "Japanese Norton enthusiasts" comment, I think perhaps he misinterpreted what you meant by "Japanese Norton enthusiasts" which you subsequently referred to as "Japanese enthusiasts"?
I somehow get the impression he understood that to mean "Japanese motorcycle enthusiasts" and not "people of Japanese nationality who are (Norton) enthusiasts" which I beileve is what you meant-but please correct me if I'm wrong?

Carbonfibre said:

The current state of the world seems to indicate very clearly that capitalism certainly doesnt work that well...

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That statement indicates your total ignorance regarding capitalism; similar to those in the current "Occupy" movements.

Capitalism works PERFECTLY.

It is ill-advised, meddling GOVERNMENTS (who are supposed to be responsible for GOVERNING the country where capitalism is employed), that cause all manner of negative unintended consequences, that "doesn't work so well".

Many people here asking if you even OWN a Commando, and you STILL have not answered. I'm personally not suggesting you DON'T own a Commando, but definitely wondering why you don't answer the question?

Capitalism relies on ever increasing profits in order to continue its operations, and works hand in hand with corrupt governments to further these ends.

However as we live in a world with finite resources, then ultimately capitalism will fail as these resources will eventually be completely exhausted as a direct result of the activitys of privileged elite groups whose greed is infinite, and whose concern for the environment is zero

Rohan said:

The last time I looked, Andover Norton were in the business of supplying spares for Norton Commandos, and earlier Nortons. An impressively large range of spares, it must be said.
For a model that ended 30+ years ago, it must also be added.
Or do you dispute this too, since that seems to be all you are capable of.

Do you even own a Commando ?
Or ever ridden one. ??

Click to expand...

Andover Norton is in the business of making money, and supplying spare parts for older bikes I would imagine is relatively lucrative? What this has to do with the demise of the former British motorcycle industry though I cant quite grasp?

Carbonfibre said:

Capitalism relies on ever increasing profits in order to continue its operations...

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Not so. I have run several businesses successfully for many years (10+) with profits that fluctuated every year. MANY others have done the same.

Carbonfibre said:

...and works hand in hand with corrupt governments to further these ends.

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Some businesses depend on government corruption for thier survival. That is NOT the definition of capitalism, it is the DESTRUCTION of capitalism (it provides the corrupt business with an undue advantage over true, law-abiding capitalists who are destroyed in thier wake).

Still no answer on whether you actually own an actual Norton motorcycle of any kind?

dave M said:

Murray, you have just made another racist statement that Japanese enthusiasts are not welcome on this site...I have no interest in further communication with you or your ilk. For the record I like Commandos and currently own 4 of them, but I am not blind to their faults...

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What is the race of a multinational corporation anyway?

Oops, I forget you are not talking to me.

Anyway, since you have four Commandos and I have only ever had one then you must know four times as much as I do.

Of your four bikes how many are Hopwood twins? Of those old twins how many came from the factory with the under-square engine and how many originally came with the standard engine with the hydraulic valve lifters? Don’t post the answer for me but I’m sure that everyone is curious to know more about your bikes.

grandpaul said:

Carbonfibre said:

Capitalism relies on ever increasing profits in order to continue its operations...

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Not so. I have run several businesses successfully for many years (10+) with profits that fluctuated every year. MANY others have done the same.

Carbonfibre said:

...and works hand in hand with corrupt governments to further these ends.

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Some businesses depend on government corruption for thier survival. That is NOT the definition of capitalism, it is the DESTRUCTION of capitalism (it provides the corrupt business with an undue advantage over true, law-abiding capitalists who are destroyed in thier wake).

Still no answer on whether you actually own an actual Norton motorcycle of any kind?

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Indeed................."Beware the military-industrial complex" was a warning which seems even more fitting today!

Carbonfibre said:

"Beware the military-industrial complex" was a warning which seems even more fitting today!

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The absolute worst abuse of power on both sides (government and private gov't contractor corporations). You could try to guess how much money is spent "off budget" by the Pentagon, and you wouldn't even be close. The number of laws that are set aside to keep this beast fed is astounding.

Now, just to bring this entire thread back on topic - I wish the government would simplify and add lightness. However, in the absence of that ever happening, let's get back to doing it with our Commandos.

Murray B said:

dave M said:

Murray, you have just made another racist statement that Japanese enthusiasts are not welcome on this site...I have no interest in further communication with you or your ilk. For the record I like Commandos and currently own 4 of them, but I am not blind to their faults...

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Anyway, since you have four Commandos and I have only ever had one then you must know four times as much as I do.

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Yes, he probably does.

Murray B said:

Don’t post the answer for me but I’m sure that everyone is curious to know more about your bikes.

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What you appear to have overlooked is that dave M is a long-standing member of the forum-therefore most of us will already know about dave M's Commandos.

Bunnies are soft!

(my attempt at defusing this Weenus-measuring contest).

Vince