Sidecar rigs on Commando hacks

This one ran at the Bonneville salt flats. I tried to find the guys before I took off, to see how they ran, but they must've left before I did.



These two guys were blowing thier brains out trying to push-start the bike, the rear tire kept sliding on the salt. So, I lent them my roller starter - VROOM! They were very happy. (I don't even remember who the tall guy is, he was telling me all about what characters the sidecar guys were.



I also spotted this little gem-



You have to look close to see that it's a 36" long, 50cc rig. I never saw the midgets that were going to run it down the salt...

The "official" factory line was "Absolutely no way is the Commando frame suitable for sidecar use!". A lot of hard-bitten Atlas and 650SS owners with sidecars were very upset. From a structural point of view, there was very little frame stiffness in the direction of the loads a sidecar would apply. As events later showed, ir wasn't that good for solo riders either, once a decent front brake got into the mix.

US readers are maybe not fully aware of the use of sidecars in the UK. It was much easier to get a driver's license for a bike than for a car in the UK back in the 60s, and you could get a motorcycle license at 16, whereas the starting age for a car was 18. Insurance was considerably cheaper also - never could figure that one as the dynamics of big sidecar rigs are not safety-conducive.

Many young families used big sidecars pulled by an Atlas. The typical "family barge" was a "double adult" sidecar, with tandem seats for a couple of 150 lb adults and usually a small seat in back for a child. There'd be two kids in front, Mom in the middle seat (where the door was) and #3 kid in back. Often, there was no brake on the sidecar wheel, no seat belts, of course, and construction was usually 20-gauge aluminum sheet over an aluminum tube frame (sometimes wood) and on a very rudimentary single-wheel steel chassis. Suspension was between the passenger module and the frame, not usually on the sidecar wheel. By modern standards, extremely hazardous, particularly if heavy braking was required. As I remember, it took at least 15 degrees of handlebar deflection just to keep the sidecar from running past the bike!

The Austin/Morris Mini killed off most of the big sidecar market, starting in 1960, as they were not much more expensive (only about $1000 new back then) , if you didn't already have a suitable sidecar pulling bike. Only the singgle-seat sports sidecars made it through.

frankdamp said:

The "official" factory line was "Absolutely no way is the Commando frame suitable for sidecar use!". .

Click to expand...

The guy who owned my Commando in Chicago was not aware of this: there was a huge lug welded in front of the left sidecover and the swing arm was completely bent .... don't know where was the 3rd mount!!!
I must be doomed as my wife SL350 Honda had a "chair" with a wheel (like some Asian Tuktuk) mounted on when I bought it!
Philippe

Interesting reports of tough times to haul a family around and not twist up a Commando frame. My interest is pure survival while enjoy Norton sounds and exposed travel but more able to deflect deer and ride after some recovering.

I think Peel's frame my be safe for non wild road and off road use as her frame is
tied together better than factory and attachment points done at corner frame junctions and maybe a bit of rubber cushioning.
Would be cool to sidecar + trailer to rallies and un hitch unhook and play like a cafe until time to pack up for home.

I know the slide-drifts will be fun on THE Gravel paths but pensive to load
chassis or my karma trying it on tarmac in public.

hobot

For a brief tim, I had a BSA A7 with a single-seat sports chair (a Watsonian, I think). I had three major problems.

The first one was when I tried to take it from the lock-up where I'd been working on it to the family's auto shop. No body on the sidecar frame, so my Dad rode on the back seat of the bike. At that time I hadn't tried any alignment. We came to a long left-hand turn (UK-style, chair on the left). As I started into the turn, the sidecar wheel came up off the ground. I corrected, and got us over the centerline. Then it did it a second time. We finished up on the forecourt of a cinema on the opposite side of the street. I was lucky it was about 8:30 on a Sunday morning and there was no traffic.

The second one was when I took my fiancee to a race meeting. On the way back, I was weaving through traffic like you're allowed to do on a solo bike in the UK, completely forgetting that wife to be was in the chair. I tried to pass a Wigan Corporation bus, and ran the nose of the sidecar right into the back of it! After 46 years, we're still married!

Third issue was rear tires. I never changed the solo tires to a sidecar version. On one occasion, I took a right-hand turn so fast, the g-forces tore the back tire off the rim and it got shredded up.

I decided sidecar rigs were definitely not for me.

I had a Ural sidecar outfit for few years, and now have a Yamaha XV920 twin (the chain drive version) pulling a Velorex hack. In spite of all the horror stories, I didn't find it that hard to get used to, compared to solo bikes. I did find it really helpfull to keep a couple 25 lb. lead bricks in the chair when I don't have a passenger. If I can ever catch up on the other project bikes, I'd like to do a Commando outfit.

Ken

Mrs. Emma Peel kicks off a sidecar cycle first kick w/o compression release but ain't no big twin Norton

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmpSHBoCMjU&feature=related[/video]

One can get quite creative...





http://www.fuchs-motorrad.de/de/single, ... Racer.html






http://www.britcycle.com/bikes/ErnieNorton001.htm















828 Commando power







Norton Wasp, 920 ex Commando engine.

Have to say, I`m with Frank on this, many moons ago a mate had one of those Ruski outfits, man - fundamentally wrong dynamically - worst case mix of bike/car bad points..I.M.O.

Well there enough examples above both isolastic and not that prove its workable so someday will find out how wrong or not with Ms Peel. One dream is to ride Peel + car + trailer to events like magazine shoot outs then un do the baggage to show what she can do. Also side car may be the only way my wife will ride with me and can't blame her one bit ater she'd seen how i return all broken bleeding on about seasonal basis in past. Don't think I could keep up with the 200+ hp side cars as Peel can't fit a car size rear tire but boy howdy I plan to drift her on 3 tires. Peel side car will have down force wing on car side.

Norton Wasp Sidecars ? :
http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/id1.html

lcrken said:

I had a Ural sidecar outfit for few years, and now have a Yamaha XV920 twin (the chain drive version) pulling a Velorex hack. In spite of all the horror stories, I didn't find it that hard to get used to, compared to solo bikes. I did find it really helpfull to keep a couple 25 lb. lead bricks in the chair when I don't have a passenger. If I can ever catch up on the other project bikes, I'd like to do a Commando outfit.

Ken

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Some of the club guys were laughing about someone who rode sidecars for years and years - took the sidecar off and went for a club ride. First traffic light they came to, he fell off. When they asked what happened, he said he forgot to put his foot down....

When the featherbed road machines first came out, the factory expressly stated the frame was not intended for sidecar use. Eric Oliver, who had been retired from racing for a few years and was then a Norton dealer, entered the 1958 TT on a standard Norton Dominator 88 with a Watsonian "Monza" road sidecar with Mrs Pat Wise (a housewife) in the sidecar, finishing a creditable tenth ahead of many specialised race machines.

The factory later deemed the featherbed suitable for sidecar use.

my bonnie sidecar rig likes me a lot.

Rohan, re that memory lapse stoplight incident,& Frank, earlier, - it is funny how conditioning works in some ways - after months off a bike due to injury/recovery , & driving automatic cars, got back on a bike , feeling great, `til gliding up to a stop...& had an embarassing moment bunny-hopping near stall, `cause the bike didn`t shift down automatically..

J.A.W. said:

it is funny how conditioning works in some ways -

Click to expand...

How 'bout jumping from a Norton to a period Triumph and downshifting rather than upshifting?
Or jumping to a modern bike and stabbing the brake to shift?

I have to think whenever I get on my S3 that :
1) shift is on the left and you have to toe up to upshift
2) there are more than 4 gears in the box, and
3) only one finger on the front brake!

Well, my H-series Kaw triples have the logical 0-1-2-3-4-5 shift pattern, -[+ optional right foot shift] - that has been adopted by carmakers, but most other bikes have neutral between 1st & 2nd, including my Yamahas. Yet even if running a race [or Norton] type 1 up , rest down scheme, I never seem to get them mixed up, maybe `cause the imprinting is deeper? I dunno..

Anybody remember the old Bridgestone? If you kept shifting up, it would cycle back 'round and go from top to 1st!