Shindengen (open type SCR) Regulator Installation MK II

marshg246 said:
What we need is someone with a brand new Podtronics to test. I suspect that John Healy is saying that it will not quicky discharge your battery like the one Alton was supplying. I seriously doubt that he completely redesigned them to have little to no draw. Although technically possible not even Tri-Spark bothered to do that.
Click to expand...
My newest Podtronics is about 18 months old. John Healey wrote that post in 2014 so my 18 month old one should be good for the test.

Glen
 
I usually remove the battery over the winter. I use the same size battery as power back-up for some radios - so I just switch it in. I had been removing the fuse during long times when not riding during the season also.
I won't argue that this leakage doesn't amount to more than a hill of beans.
Russ
 
Triton Thrasher said:
Relays and extra switches in your ignition or charging circuits go against my principles of simplicity and reliability, but yes, it would not be difficult.
Click to expand...

Not always.
I got my first 1998 TL1000S in 2000 and the second in 2004 (I still have both) which were well known to have a few glitches including electrical. (ignition and charging)
A common ignition mod back then (Jarkko T from Finland) was to use a relay in the coil loom to get direct power to the coils which made a noticeable impact on starting for one.
Easy on that bike because the ECU controlled the coils via the negatives so direct power from the battery to the positive side was possible, the existing key on positive used to energise the added (fused) relay.

If it was possible to run a direct relay controlled power source from the battery to the coil/coils on a Commando I would have no hesitation in doing so.

TL1000S and TL1000R. (1997 to 2003)
plusmod2.jpg

Shindengen (open type SCR) Regulator Installation MK II
 
OK, updated numbers and ranked best to worst for parasitic drain:
  • Tri-Spark MOSFET, 0.005mA (Re-tested today)
  • OEM system, 0.21mA (Re-tested today)
  • Tympanium (from memory): 0.6mA
  • PODtronics POD-1-HP, 0.66mA, Purchased 8/18/2019 (Re-tested today)
  • Sparx SPX002: 0.85mA (NOS tested today)
  • Triton Thrasher's AliExpress bargain: 0.78mA
  • Batrider's Shindengen: 0.86mA
All my testing with the same meter and the same fully charged AGM battery.
 
marshg246 said:
So, likely it will read just like I reported.
Click to expand...
Most likely.
I'm surprised that John has it wrong though. He tends to be Mr. Right. Also, this is his product so he should get current (pun) if all of his regs have parasitic draw and he is stating the opposite.
 
Last edited:
Ok, results are in...

Commando 828 :

Varta AGM Battery ,
Last charged - about a month ago
Isolated - no
Battery voltage today - 12.71
Reg/ Rec - Boyer power box
Leakdown - zero

Points to note. Alton starter, completely rewired, (but still +ve earth)

Morini 500 Camel :

Varta clone AGM Battery ,
Last charged - never (bike run briefly about a month ago)
Isolated - no
Battery voltage today - 12.63
Reg/ Rec - unbranded, with battery sense wire
Leakdown - zero

Points to note. completely rewired and upgraded to 12v, and alternator uprated.

I was suspicious of the zero readings as it's a new meter, so I tested it on one of my other bikes...

Royal Enfield Himalayan :

Varta clone AGM Battery ,
Last charged - about a month ago
Isolated - yes
Battery voltage today - 12.25
Reg/ Rec - OEM
Leakdown - 0.04 Ma

Points to note. The Enfield has a clock, ABS and fuel injection.
 
Last edited:
I tested 2 of the Podtronics. One is 18 months old the other is about 7 years old.
Both show zero parasitic draw.
I used a new multimeter and an older tried and true one.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
I tested 2 of the Podtronics. One is 18 months old the other is about 7 years old.
Both show zero parasitic draw.
I used a new multimeter and an older tried and true one.

Glen
Click to expand...
I learned long ago not to say things are impossible, but your results are improbable. Are you inserting the meter in the black or red wires (i.e. in series)? What range on the meter?
 
Yes, in series. The meter has scales from 10 amp thru to 20 microamps

It measures .055 ma parasitic draw with the Triumph Thruxton r. That might be all just in the computer.

I will check more regs tomorrow, if I get a chance.
I have a 25 year old Podtronics on one bike. I suspect that one has parasitic draw.
Everyone seems to be getting different results here.
Batrider's Shindengen 775 measured .86 ma draw and my Podtronics measured zero.
Grant Tiller has the Shindengen 775 at zero parasitic draw while he has the Pods at about half a milliamp draw.


Glen
 
Last edited:
worntorn said:
Yes in series. The meter has scales from 10 amp thru to 20 microamps

It measures .055 ma parasitic draw with the Triumph Thruxton r.

I will check a more regs tomorrow.
I have a 25 year old Podtronics on one bike. I suspect that one has parasitic draw.

Glen
Click to expand...
We must be measuring differently or possibly different devices. Please state which Podtronics (POD-1P (120w), POD-1-HP (200 watt) or POD-3P). Unless he added a physical internal relay, I can think of no device to shut it off that doesn't have leakage current. It is certainly possible to put a power transistor, SCR, or MOSFET in either of the positive or negative output circuits that is controlled by the AC input and a diode and capacitor to gate the output, but all have leakage current.
 
BTW, John Healy said:

Quite the opposite. We are currently suppling Podtronics rectifiers to Alton in France to replace a regulator they were using that will drain a battery if not switched.

Podtonics regulators do not need a switch and will not drain your battery.

NickL's light bulb test is a simple check to verify if voltage is leaking. Disconnect the two yellow leads and put a 2 or 3 watt indicator bulb across the leads.

He did not say no leakage current, and he said to test with a 2-3 watt bulb. For a 2 watt bulb: P=IE so 2=i12 so is takes 166mA to fully light a 2 watt bulb - of course it won't light at 0.66mA! Also, he says to put the bulb across the leads - that tests nothing - it must be in series with the rectifier and battery. And, voltage does not leak, current leaks.
 
That it true, voltage doesn't leak , although in practical terms it appears to as voltage goes down over time with parasitic draw. I think we all know what he means.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
That it true, voltage doesn't leak , although in practical terms it appears to as voltage goes down over time with parasitic draw. I think we all know what he means.

Glen
Click to expand...
OK, he says to put the bulb "across the leads". The leads in that sentence are the yellow leads - clearly tests nothing. If he means the black and red leads, it tests the battery, not the leakage current. To be less nice about it, it's nonsense.

Within a reasonable time period, none of the units we have tested will "drain your battery". However, even the tiniest leakage current is draining your battery.

We are discussing and interesting but non-issue.

I wish I knew for sure what regulator Alton originally used and the current drain - may have been yet another urban legend and Alton may have accidentally started it by telling people the switch the regulator; or, if it's really like the drawing a few posts back, it's a negative ground regulator with a control lead to enable it. Pretty likely that a regulator with a control lead has one for a reason.
 
It is confusing, because Alton dynamo replacement alternators were single phase, succeeded by a three phase version, which was itself succeeded by another single phase type.

That was quite a long time ago. I don’t know what they sell these days.
 
Yes and for Vincents at least, there was another Alton unit that replaced the failed three phase. It was the best of them all for low rpm charging as it had an internal transmission to speed up the armature. It worked great until the nylon gears shed their teeth at about 5000 miles.
That unit came with a Chinese reg of some sort.
Paul Hamon, the owner of Alton, told me that they tried several suppliers of Chinese regs but gave up on that as there were too many failures.
They switched to Podtronics in 2017 and he said ( in 2021) that their regulator failure rate had dropped to negligible.
Podtronics are manufactured in Taiwan to Bob Kizer's design.
Taiwanese products often get lumped in with Chinese as being low quality goods, however I have had very good luck with Taiwanese machine tools, mechanics tools and other items.
The Taiwan copies of Southbend lathes are quite sought after since many see them as an upgrade of the Southbend.

Glen
 
Last edited:
With all this concern over parasitic loss with Shindengen regulator, I went out and checked mine this evening. It has been sitting for 3 months. Turned the key on, the headlight was bright and the horn had a good strong note. Voltage on the battery checked out to 12.26 volts

This is with the SH775A series open type regulator.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Britstuff
MK II 850 Commando 1974 Amal Carb choice.
Replies
13
Views
620
acotrel
acotrel
WEM
Rough first start for the season
Replies
16
Views
667
trappnman
trappnman
Britstuff
1974 850 MK II Norton Commando Clutch Basket Advise Needed
Replies
4
Views
565
Britstuff
Britstuff
ashman
Seems a lot on here have different ways of doing thing on their Norton's
2
Replies
36
Views
2,290
Jonez69
Jonez69
Z
750cc Norton Commando Salt Flats Build
2 3 4
Replies
73
Views
6,890
Zachary Brown
Z
Back
Top