Sharpie shards down the plug hole...

Embarrassing as it is, necessity drives me to confess. Whilst trying to determine TDC with whatever was handy and relatively soft I put the end of a Sharpie felt pen into the spark plug hole to watch for it to rise to the apex. It was momentarily amused to see it launch out with what I thought was over pressure. As I picked the Sharpie off the floor, to my horror I saw that the end had broken off. Indeed, with the help of a flashlight I was able to see Sharpie pieces on top of the piston. That is the bone-head confession.

As you might have guessed by this time, I have no clear idea of how to get the hard plastic pieces out of the cylinder without removing the head. Any ideas?

Hi Coop,
No biggy, probably won't hurt a thing. First try giving it a blast from an air nozzle, if that doesn't work leave the spark plug out and kick it over a couple of time, probably blow right out.

GB

This is what I would do;

1- take off the exhaust pipe
2- take off the spark plug
3- bring the piston to TDC (or close to it) with the exhaust valve open
4- If you have access to an air compressor, blow in the sparkplug hole and put a filter of some kind (a nylon sock would do, just ask your SO) on the exhaust pipe
4- if you don't have an air compressor, put a vacuum on the exhaust port (with a filter too)
5- check the filter to make sure the piece is in it

Jean

I like Jean's suggestion. I once left some washers being used for spacers on the top of my air cleaner just sitting on top of the air cleaner which I had left cant'ed off the side of the carb on a V8 so I could prime it with gas to start the engine. Once I had it started I couldn't find the spacer washers when re-fitting the air cleaner. You guessed it, they got sucked in and were bouncing around in my top end and kept flattening the spark plug electrodes and shutting the engine down. I must have tore the heads off 4 times and cleaned the town I was in out of top end gasket kits before I got it resolved as some of the pieces kept hiding out in the intake manifold whilst I was was cleaning out the cylinders etc.

How about some tweezers or some gum on the end of a pencil?

I wouldn't think it a big bother either. I'd be tempted to put a shop vac on the exhaust with the exhaust valve open and blow in to the plug hole.

To be thourough, you have to recover the broken piece and make sure it has left the engine... since the tip of a sharpie is plastic, it probably wouldn't hurt just to run the engine and let it find it's way out (this is my Alfred E. Newman "what me worry" answer :lol: )

Jean

So what's it going to hurt anyway? I'm reckoning the worst that happens is it keeps a valve from seating and costs a head gasket. If you wound up quick enough at high speed the stuff would go right through or get pounded to powder I'd think. The worst I've seen myself is a slide guide from a Mikuni going though one of my engines. It was plastic and I just found it missing after wards. I've heard of folks busting up an Amal slide and having it go thought with no damage.

Coop said:

Embarrassing as it is, necessity drives me to confess. Whilst trying to determine TDC with whatever was handy and relatively soft I put the end of a Sharpie felt pen into the spark plug hole to watch for it to rise to the apex. It was momentarily amused to see it launch out with what I thought was over pressure. As I picked the Sharpie off the floor, to my horror I saw that the end had broken off. Indeed, with the help of a flashlight I was able to see Sharpie pieces on top of the piston. That is the bone-head confession.

Click to expand...

Bone-head confession #2.. I did the same thing. Except with a 1/4 inch wooden dowel. I turned the engine backwards (pistons going down) until the exhaust valve was open and blew compressed air into the exhaust port. I managed to get the broken piece to wedge into the plug hole and grabbed it with needle nose. The piece I took out was about 1-1/4 inch long and would have done damage.

Lesson learned. Use a SOLID piston stop and a degree wheel to find TDC. I don't even like those screw in devices with a sliding peg.

I would remove the plastic pen parts even if it means pulling the head. The plastic can lodge under the valve, hold it open, and allow the piston to hit the valve with disastrous results.

Find true TDC once and mark the alternator rotor so you can use that next time.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, it gave me some confidence. Here is what I did. With plugs out I turned over the engine with the starter (MKIII). While doing so I kept my palm above the plug hole and sure enough, plastic chunks began to fly out. After some of this I peered into the hole using a flashlight, and repeated the process. After 3 rounds of this I could see no more plastic in the cylinder. I then put the plug in and fired it up. Since then I have run about 10 miles or so and to this point no detectable problems. I appreciate ya'll responding.

Ron... now that my ego has already taken a hit I can admit that I do not know what a degree wheel and piston stop are.

Good news!

Coop,
My comment was not meant to chastise you. Actually it was me that learned that lesson many, many years ago when I snapped a wooden pencil in a garden tractor engine. I had to pull a bunch of sheet metal out to pull the head to clean out the pieces.

A degree wheel is a large wheel (about 8-10 inches in diameter) marked in degrees that is attached to the crankshaft and is useful to check cam timing and ignition timing. It is also useful to check the accuracy of the timing marks on the primary cover and alternator rotor also.

A piston stop is a solid stop that is usually made from an old spark plug with the ceramic removed. A bolt or rod is welded into it and the end rounded to prevent damage when in contact with the piston. The device is screwed into the spark plug hole and the engine rotated slowly forward until it stops, the degrees read from the wheel, then the engine is rotated backward until it contact the stop again. The degrees are read from the wheel and TDC is exactly between these two readings. Remove the stop and rotate the engine to the determined TDC reading and you can make a reference mark on your alternator rotor and primary to allow you to readily find TDC in the future.

Ron, thanks for the detailed description of the degree wheel and piston stop. I will keep an eye out to obtain them. The procedure sounds simple enough and would look very impressive if someone were to ever watch me in the garage. Even better I could quit sticking pens and other foreign objects in the plug hole.

On a side note; after I got the engine started a new fuel leak sprang up and the other cylinder quit firing. After cleaning out the pilot passage with a bread bag wire and fixing the new leak I have been out riding several times. The weather here in Northern Utah is glorious. While putting around I fell in love with the old Norton once again. There is just nothing like a Norton when it is running well. I also have a newer Bonneville but it stays in the garage except when the MKIII is waiting on parts or fixes.