Rubber dampers

Norton961 said:

As stated previously, I have a damaged rear hub from a failure just like this. I have sharp aluminum hub material now protruding into the space where the rubber washers reside. It is now a rubber washer blender/eater.

Norton first said they would replace the whole wheel assembly, but after waiting several weeks for it, I've just been told (today) the factory has rejected the warranty claim. The bike is 18 mos into the warranty with only 3500 miles on the odometer.

It's clear Norton is aware of this issue with the Talon hubs because it was discussed with me at length when I called to discuss rubber pieces coming out of the hub.

The bike has been down for almost a month now and this is an unacceptable position Norton has taken on the warranty claim. More to follow.

Click to expand...

What was their reason / logic for their rejection?

Fast Eddie said:

Norton961 said:

As stated previously, I have a damaged rear hub from a failure just like this. I have sharp aluminum hub material now protruding into the space where the rubber washers reside. It is now a rubber washer blender/eater.

Norton first said they would replace the whole wheel assembly, but after waiting several weeks for it, I've just been told (today) the factory has rejected the warranty claim. The bike is 18 mos into the warranty with only 3500 miles on the odometer.

It's clear Norton is aware of this issue with the Talon hubs because it was discussed with me at length when I called to discuss rubber pieces coming out of the hub.

The bike has been down for almost a month now and this is an unacceptable position Norton has taken on the warranty claim. More to follow.

Click to expand...

What was their reason / logic for their rejection?

Click to expand...

per SBN, something to the affect that he (me) should have known they were bad. There were no symptons of anything wrong from a ridability perspective. The issue was first discovered while cleaning the rear wheel. There were pieces of rubber sticking out between the hub and sprocket carrier. As soon as this was discovered, I called the UK and spoke to a tech which is referenced in one of my previous posts above. The tech told me some of the bikes had the older inferior rubber washers and that the material had been updated. 47 miles later, the new washers arrived and the hub damage was discovered when I dismounted the wheel to replace them.

Please note there is a lot of dealer and factory knowledge of this issue and some of that info is posted here by others, supported by my conversations with SBN and direct conversations with the factory.

There is no service bulletin on the issue; there is nothing in the manual that calls for an inspection.

This bike has been in and out of the dealer here in Dallas many times for warranty work over the last 12 months and clearly no inpsection was being done that would have discovered this up until I found it through a detailing/cleaning activity.

Pretty rediculous situation with 3500 miles on the bike.

Note the 'made in China' bearing.

I`d like to share a story now that you've shared this CHINA picture. I`m not saying this story applies across the board on all bearings made in China or any other bearings in the Norton but I`ll share what I personally studied with bearings made in China. I just spent the last quarter of last year testing bearings for tattoo equipment to reduce noise and get a more consistent amperage usage. I`ll tell you from my experience! I studied $1.00 per pc bearings that were made in CHINA and the same spec bearings made in Japan or Germany were between $5-$7.00 a pc. 10mm od and 3mm ID sealed bearing. There were no options of a better more expensive same spec bearing from China. I realize this is a lot smaller than anything in the bikes but the results blew us all away so read on if you`re interested.

THE IMPORTANT FACT IS ALL THREE BEARINGS HAD THE EXACT SAME SPECS!!! (but you will see that 1 of the 3 cheat the specs.) And the only reason this came up is because a purchaser thought he was doing good saving the company money on the same spec bearing. But after assembly, during testing it was obvious the machines were more noisy. We thought we had a bad batch and ordered another 1,500 bearings (from China). The purchaser did nothing wrong -- he was doing his job. No one got fired as a result of this experiment.. lol

With only changing the bearing and nothing else in a rotary style tattoo machine

CHINA BEARINGS
Decibel level range 62-87 (price$1.12 CDN each)

JAPANESE and GERMAN had the same results so I will combine them.
Decibel level range 56-58 (price approx. $6.00 each CDN)

Also the JAP and German bearings use approx. 9% less amperage under the same conditions.

And the temperature was 1.20 degrees Celsius less on the Jap or German bearings after 1hr of being in use under a controlled environment.

So, food for thought. PS : the tattoo machines now use only Japanese bearings. :mrgreen:

Sorry for hi jacking your thread.

Just to hijack this thread a little further the bearing in the picture is made by NSK which is a Japanese company with over 40 production sites world wide. Including some in Germany. They will have been manufactured to Japanese standards. Very different to some home grown Chinese low cost bearing manufacturers.
When buying bearings from major players such as SKF , NTL and NSK they often come from a wide variety of source countries depending on which plant is currently running that particular bearing.
I have not heard of a wheel bearing failure on a Norton 961.

spannerhands said:

Just to hijack this thread a little further the bearing in the picture is made by NSK which is a Japanese company with over 40 production sites world wide. Including some in Germany. They will have been manufactured to Japanese standards. Very different to some home grown Chinese low cost bearing manufacturers.
When buying bearings from major players such as SKF , NTL and NSK they often come from a wide variety of source countries depending on which plant is currently running that particular bearing.
I have not heard of a wheel bearing failure on a Norton 961.

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I have never heard of rear wheel bearing failure either -- just to note!

and >>> this hi-jack just made my day!! Thanks for sharing. Okay -- back to dampers now.. :twisted:

Norton961 said:

failed dampers destroyed the wheel hub on mine. I'm waiting on a complete wheel and hub assembky with an updated design. I believe the washers are inferior material and can't handle the torque. High grade (aircraft) neoprene would most likely be the solution.

Click to expand...

This is not what one should expect from a new machine! I am thinking I am fortunate now having the BST wheels on mine.

At this point, I'm not sure why Norton is even allowed to sell the new bikes in the US. Aftermarket support is horrendous. I also note Stephen Green didn't survive as the new aftermarket guy at the factory in the UK.

I am not sure if 'didn't survive' is the right comment as he was head hunted by a rival (Triumph) for more money. The UK support may need chasing on occasions but we do get the service here.

that still equates to didn't survive. 1) I bet he was really enjoying what he had to deal with 2) he was probably underpaid for what he was having to sort through on a regular basis 3) good people usually don't stick around if the job isn't rewarding 4) I assume it wouldn't have taken much to lure him away.

Stephen Green. He promised me an extended warranty of an extra year since my bike was out of commission for 19 of the first 24 months of ownership. Ha!! Just to have the factory tell me....."He was good for promising things that weren't true. Not in writing, you don't have an extended warranty." That got me a little peeved. Lies and deception. Ok. Enough of that. My dampers are shot too. Just got a new tire, noticed that I'm about to start eating aluminum if I don't replace them very soon. 7650 on the clock.

The factory sells the grommets for 5 pounds each. (about $6.25 US) Do they really think they would wear out one at a time rather than as a set?? Sure wish I knew where to get these state side. Another 30 bucks in shipping :roll:

Ralphi. Do you have the measurements readily available?? This looks familiar. http://www.ebay.com/itm/EB279-2009-09-A ... 1909945400 I can get the dampers here state side if they are the same as the Aprilia. ($4.00 US) I did order them already from the factory. That would be a total of $20.00 instead of $60.00.

Make that $3.33 each.

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts ... oduct=2455

I did already pay the double of 60 bucks here in Switzerland :-(
I have the measurements somewhere, but have to search for them...
Raphi (not Ralphi) ;-)

Sorry for the mistake. Raphi as in short for Raphael? If so, I think I've read some of your posts on another forum. I agree. :wink: Anyway, if the ones on the link are the same, since we do know Norton kind of buddies up with Aprilia, next time I pay $3.33 for the set. Just paid my 60.

From AF1 Racing , Part measures 16mm ID x 34mm OD x 28mm Width .. Measure yours and see if its the same .. I can tell you that my Norton Part number 6010049 cush drive rubbers for spoked rim hub measures 19mm ID , 32mm OD , 10.5mm width. So that is NOT the same part. I hope that Norton get this resolved , at least find a replacement that last 15,000 to 20,000 miles. If the driving stubs on the sprocket carrier were longer , with corresponding deeper cush rubbers it would help a lot ! I will upload a picture of mine when I replace them . A question for Kevin French. How long are these cush drive rubbers supposed to last ?

Thank you for that, Tony. Well, that's that. Are yours shot too? I get the bike up there in speed, but I don't beat on it from a start. No wheelies and hole shots for me. I keep the synchros shifting smoothly. Can't understand where all this pressure is coming from. I don't think the factory is charging ridiculous prices, its the damned shipping. :?

Hi Britfan , I can see rubber starting to fall out of them if that's any indication. And only 3778 miles . My suggestion on the shipping is to buy 2 or 3 whole sets , that will help cost average them. Next time I buy , it will be for a 10 -15 minimum. I keep reading about these talon hubs and how good they are. But they made their name in dirt bikes right ? I think the dampers are too narrow for a big engine like this with all this torque impulse. Maybe the material can upgraded ? What will Norton do I wonder ? At this rate I will be changing every year. Too much..

To cheer all you guys up, a long time ago, in the late 60s, I was told that circular cush drive rubbers like the ones used on the 961 do not work. Thats why the featherbed framed, and Commando full width rear hub has rectangular cush drive rubbers. Even allowing for the considerable improvements in plastics since then, maybe this still holds true? At a guess the hardness of the insert would be very critical.
cheers
wakeup

And that cheers us up how?? :? :?

Hello Britfan , Have you tried the dealer ? See what their mark up is , it may be lower ? At least you have managed twice the mileage I got out of mine.