Rickman Commando

Hi all

Well got some time in the garage to do some cleaning & a bit of polishing. All loosly assembled & as usual a few suprises found. My rear wheel is a Triumph T160 hub not a T140 as thought. quite sort after now days so a bit more value. My NJB shocks I have probably got mounted upside down! Norman built them both ways ie spring at the top & spring at the bottom. The clue is in the label I suspect, however I will remove the spring & test them as Norman said ie any damping in the first 20mm & they are the right way up, no damping & they are upside down. Also my mounts are 3/8 & I have probably fitted my spare 3/8 rubbers in the wrong end!! I am having some spacers made up for the lower mounts so that I can use my bobbins. My lovely Italian clip ons turned out not to be 34.5mm so they are off being bored out a bit! The petrol tank sits on the inner sides against the frame not on the base of the tank. Oval shaped tank mounting rubbers would be good here. Sharks fin fitted, caliper stripped & rusty fixings changed. Nice rubber pad cut for the seat fixing. Wheels in to make it a rolling chassis (I need the garage space.

I did the photo in the garage rather than subject you all to my retiring paint job in the full sunshine of a late English summers day.

All the best Chris

Rolling chassis is a big milestone!

The sun is shining & its a beautiful day here in England.
I had to you knew I would

Chris

Chris said:

Hi
Bernard it was Philpots that quoted me that price.
Fast Eddie I will have a think & write that up, sometime!

So it begins!


A new swingingarm spindle made up by my friend Terry. 6mm allen head put in each end with a wobbly broach. New nuts on order.

Chris

Click to expand...

I want one of those!

Chris said:

.........The reason is something Steve Adlem said, about not seeing Rickmans in the period running Norvil/Seeley front ends. Well mine has a Norvil Commando front & Triumph rear. Other than the stantions I nearly have a complete Rickman disc front fork set up. I have a Rickman front wheel, the later type i.e. not the drum/disc hub & a rear wheel Now I have a funny feeling that I lent the discs out to someone!!! to have some made. 11 inch front 10 1/2inch rear? I will probably build it as it was to get it all together. I am sure it will take a bit of time to sort out the Rickman parts but eventually it will be all Rickman! .......

Click to expand...

With Rickman lower fork legs the discs are 10" front and rear.

The Betor 38mms originally fitted to my chassis took the front up to 11" on the same hub.

Seeley discs fit and I have a Dick Hunt supplied 11" as spare with one of these turned down by him to 10" on the rear.

So my Rickman rear end is pretty much Rickman, round tube swinging arm and cast iron disc on Rickman non cush hub.

Though the shock mounts are moved over, as is the wheel spacing and it has a 3.2" by 18" rim with a 130 tyre in place of the WM3 with 3.50 tyre.

Front end is rather different! But to be faithfull to the original build I would need a Rickman front hub and a pair of single disc 38mm Betors.

Chris said:

The sun is shining & its a beautiful day here in England.
I had to you knew I would

Chris

Click to expand...

No I didn't, but that will save you losing it in the lock up!

Hi Steve

Looking at the 41mm tubes again but on the probably one day, if list.
I lent out one of the Rickman disc's & cant remember who to! I remember they were looking to have soe made. I have one original for the front so will use a Dick Hunt one on the back. I dont use it much so it wont matter about the cast iron being "right or wrong" Anyway the bike will go back togeather with what I have so that it can be used.
ight come & spectate at Brands, if I do I will catch up with you there.

All the best Chris

Chris said:

Click to expand...

It may be yellow, but I still recognise that seat ;-)

I'm interested in the comments about handling. There are several things which affect it. Fork yoke offset, steering head angle, wheelbase, wheel size, weight distribution, power output of the motor. Usually as you gas the motor, the rear end of the bike squats and the steering head angle becomes slightly shallower, so the bike self-steers slightly. If the set-up is right, the bike inspires confidence. I don't believe the frame can ever be too rigid. If it flexes, you will feel it and it will probably make you feel unsafe. As you brake the front of the bike usually dives, so the steering head becomes steeper and the bike becomes more stable. So a dragging brake can cause you to run out of road. However under certain circumstances the bike can become completely dangerous, so it pays to take care when you first ride any bike which you have built yourself. Always better get someone else to ride it first.

Chris said:

Hi
Interesting question. Race bikes all.On the road I can get my Commando to gently weave. With the Norvil proddie it doesn't but it is heavy on the wrists. Balance? I think its the riding position altering the weight distribution.On the track the featherbed was faultless the long stretch over the tank suits my build, footrest position was not so good & I always found the wideline chaffed my thighs.Never had a problem with handling same as the Rickman really.I was always told both these frames were great until they let go! I was told the frames are too stiff.My view of a good frame is if I don't think about it when I have raced. The Seeley Mk2 is on rails it goes where you look.However with the mk4 you can alter the handling by moving about on the bike. Perfect balance? I would like to see what the weights of these bikes are.The featherbed is heavy as its a road frame the Rickman is pretty solid & I don't think the mk2 is that far away.The mk3 & mk4 are worlds away.The Seeley's are tiny in comparison to anything else. Funnily enough the proddy racer handled fine on the track I did feel it really dropped into hairpins but on the fast stuff it was pretty good. I am not the fastest by a mile but bikes to me are all about what you feel & the mk4 just puts a smile on your face.
Chris

Click to expand...

Can't argue with what Chris has said. The only Seeley I have ridden is Chris' Mk4. You won't better it, but us bigger guys do have a problem fitting in the low height! I am 6 foot with longer arms (see below)

Commandos wobble and weave, but tend to go where you want! Just let them, can beat them for comfort. Never ridden a featherbed, never wanted to, every one I have sat on has felt just to short for me to tuck in!

Rickmans! Well I get fed up with being told they are too stiff and don't handle by people who have never ridden one! The stories that they grip until they let go with no warning wre relevant to early frames with phosphor bronze bushed swinging arms and '60s tyres. The response from Rickman was to fit silentbloc bushes that gave the rider some warning. As we went into the '70s, tyres improved and as people like me installed more power the silentbloc bushes caused weaving, so we went back to phosphor bronze bushes (mine supplied by Rickman as fitted to CR Kawasakis).

They are more physical than a Seeley to ride and don't turn as fast, but the stability on a fast bend is fantastic and this is where they are best. Once you have commited to a line, that is where you are going to go, don't change your mind, which of course you can do on a Seeley. They suit a smooth rider who sets up for a bend and stays with it. Hairpins are hard work, but the difference in real speed is small.

People forget that the first disc braked win went to Bill Ivy on a G50 powered Rickman in '66 at Mallory, so you don't need to be big to ride one, but if you are big you should fit better than you do on some things.

They also forget that for a few years up to around '75 Roy Toyne was absolutey unbeatable on a Rickman around Cadwell Park with a 750 Commando engine, hairpin and all. Roy isn't a big guy either, but watching him at Cadwell earlier this year, still very smooth. Mike Shoesmith was a regular winner at Brands on one for a while. During this period they were beating Seeleys and featherbeds!

In any case, due to manufacturing and materials many 'modern' Seeley replicas are stiffer than the original ones!

I doubt the scrutineers will pass that yellow!

Steve, on top of your points, here's mine...

I think Rickmans may get some of their 'too stiff' reputation from suspension set up and their physical size.

Until suspension got to where it is today, many a club racer and cafe racer fell into the 'stiffer is better' trap.

The Rickman is a long bike from arse to clip ons, add stiff suspension and this can put the rider, especially one no so tall, in a position whereby they're kinda bouncing around and hanging on for grim death as the bike feels so 'stiff'.

Clear, such a rider ain't gonna be very perceptive to any feedback the chassis is giving him, so when it lets go, he'll say "it gripped till it let go with no warning" and "it felt too stiff".

I raced a Rickman with a 500 Nourish motor (Ex Tim Antill chassis) I crashed it twice in less than a season! I sold the chassis as I'd bought into the "too stiff" belief.

I guy called Ian Cramp bought it. Ian is both a better bike 'setter upper' and rider than me, as was proved when he turned it into a championship winning flier (and he also had a 500cc NRE motor in it)!

FWIW, he steepend up the fork angle and lowered the front / raised th rear quite a bit.

Hi all

Yes Steve & very comfortable it is too
On my Dresda triple, I have actually upholstered my own seat, well in a fashion. The first bike not to have stuck on foam pads for a seat.
One thing my mate John said, he did the paintwork, was that underneath the top coat the paint was purple!
Must ask him if thats was the mudguard or the seat! I need to have a look for some period Rickmans in purple!
Could be the way forward Nigel.
All the best Chris

Fast Eddie said:

FWIW, he steepend up the fork angle and lowered the front / raised the rear quite a bit.

Click to expand...

FWIW, I raised it with 13" Girling gas shocks in place of the Rickman supplied 12" Girling oil shocks in about '77, still with 19" rims.

Now I have 18" rims and 14" Maxton shocks and a slightly longer swinging arm which which in total lowers the front a bit and raises the rear about as much as you can. The swinging arm is really there to accomodate a 130/70 tyre as opposed to a 3.50 triangular!, made in the original style round tube, not a box section as many use. The overall tyre diameter is probably about the same as the original 19" triangular!

With a Maxton front end set up for my weight (a fair bit more than it was in '79!) it is not 'too stiff' on the suspension, but it is fairly firm, got a harsh thud going through a bumpy dip at Gedinne each time, but OK everywhere else. I have only felt chatter at one meeting with it, end of season 2015 at Snetterton 300 going onto back straight, which after one click increase in front rebound led to going a bit quicker and some chatter at Coram and another click, fixed. Haven't adjusted it this year.

I am happy with it, but fairly sure I work harder than a Seeley rider, and since I am not as fit as most of them, I struggle a bit after the middle of most races. I typically see my best lap around lap 3. That is where tuning me, will help more than any tuning of the bike!

Hi

Pat French's advice to me was to drop the front forks on the triple by an inch & a half, trouble is on the triple you ran into ground clearance problems with the pipe under braking.
The Commando has Dommie length forks & raised rear shocks as Steve says.
Oil tank fitted & front engine plates.

Chris

Looks like very generous suspension travel.

Hi Paul

I would have said there will be a lot less travel once I get my fat ar*e on it but at the moment I think the springs might be to strong

Chris

PS found the rear engine plates so there next in line for a clean up.

Hi

Rear engine/gearbox plates in. Exhaust system to clean & paint next. Followed by sourcing a catch tray.

Chris

Hi all

My friend Steve forwarded a photo today, the Rickmans engine laid out on the bench ready for rebuilding

All the best Chris

Like!