Retorquing the cylinder head?
- Thread starter dmm144j
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and you manged to get that far down the road even with the wrong torque spec on the headbolts... just imagine how well the bike would run if you corrected that! :mrgreen:
So Jim, is this 75K without head removal or top end renewal, or is it top end renewal along the way with mutiple uses of the head gasket?
Glen
So Jim, is this 75K without head removal or top end renewal, or is it top end renewal along the way with mutiple uses of the head gasket?
Glen
Well youve got me beat all to heck.
Mine has been off three times in 8000miles. First time was a blown copper head gasket. One of the studs pulled out when I gave chase to a couple of new Harleys that had passed me when I was cruising at 70. They went by at about 85, then I went by them at 6200 rpm x 22tooth, whatever that equates too. After a mile or two I noticed it wasnt holding 6200 anymore, then I noticed oil on my leg.
I sure showed them!
Fixed the stripped stud holes and installed a new copper gasket, the old one looked pretty ugly. Must have done something wrong because it leaked as well. Changed to a thin composite gasket and so far that has been OK for five thousand miles, but I have a long way to go to catch up to you!
Glen
Mine has been off three times in 8000miles. First time was a blown copper head gasket. One of the studs pulled out when I gave chase to a couple of new Harleys that had passed me when I was cruising at 70. They went by at about 85, then I went by them at 6200 rpm x 22tooth, whatever that equates too. After a mile or two I noticed it wasnt holding 6200 anymore, then I noticed oil on my leg.
I sure showed them!
Fixed the stripped stud holes and installed a new copper gasket, the old one looked pretty ugly. Must have done something wrong because it leaked as well. Changed to a thin composite gasket and so far that has been OK for five thousand miles, but I have a long way to go to catch up to you!
Glen
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LOL!!! Getting old in this life is worth bragging about - if still enjoying it and w/o nerds we'd not have anything but sticks and stones to live and die with. Still old nerds aren't well known for getting out and about but to mingle with similar souls : )
But back on hobot reality check points Jim and crew.... Pray tell how you determined to so wisely ignore Norton manual wisdom to throw torque caution to the wind and OMG strike out on your own to exceed the manual torque values? Better not be by just more and more torque till stayed put and sealed - or OMG you'd be just like ole trial and error hobot bad practice. I expect to hear about the pressure sensitive witness sheets or torque compression washer grades and extracted bolt stretch retained or charted bolt stretch per its material, length and thermal zone placement per partial turns after initial seating...
Worntorn, a nod to you kicking up heels and blowing parts in wild abandon w/o protection of torque wrench on the throttle, just going by wrist stretch too eh.
W/o figures at hand I'd guessimate like 120 mph of passing glee till poopoo.
But back on hobot reality check points Jim and crew.... Pray tell how you determined to so wisely ignore Norton manual wisdom to throw torque caution to the wind and OMG strike out on your own to exceed the manual torque values? Better not be by just more and more torque till stayed put and sealed - or OMG you'd be just like ole trial and error hobot bad practice. I expect to hear about the pressure sensitive witness sheets or torque compression washer grades and extracted bolt stretch retained or charted bolt stretch per its material, length and thermal zone placement per partial turns after initial seating...
Worntorn, a nod to you kicking up heels and blowing parts in wild abandon w/o protection of torque wrench on the throttle, just going by wrist stretch too eh.
W/o figures at hand I'd guessimate like 120 mph of passing glee till poopoo.
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Well I guess I can no longer say I have never lost a coarse thread helicoil in the head anymore. I put my bike on the rack tonight to service it for the upcoming trip and went to torque the headbolts. The left front stud gave me that sick feeling when I put the wrench on it.
It had been leaking a little but the head gasket will live again after I take my rosebud to it.
I put this head on in the mid 90's when I was working on port shapes. It has slip fit inserts in the intake and exhaust I was using to try different shapes. It has many hours of abuse on the dyno. Jim
It had been leaking a little but the head gasket will live again after I take my rosebud to it.
I put this head on in the mid 90's when I was working on port shapes. It has slip fit inserts in the intake and exhaust I was using to try different shapes. It has many hours of abuse on the dyno. Jim
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oh ugh Jim. I've had old outboards helicoil thread repair troubles as a youth in Fla. so had Ken put in Timeserts in Peel.
Did you just put a regular wrench on as expedient nip up like bad example me or bother with a T-wrench? At least was found at home and time enough to fix up somehow. If I get going now maybe in 20 yr I can rack up 75K miles too.
Did you just put a regular wrench on as expedient nip up like bad example me or bother with a T-wrench? At least was found at home and time enough to fix up somehow. If I get going now maybe in 20 yr I can rack up 75K miles too.
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I prefer aluminum bronze to timeserts. Here are three used valve guides threaded 9/16- 12 installed with JB weld.
Here they are trimmed off and threaded.
Now- why did it fail. I found the answer. The extra length studs I had installed were bottomed out in the cap nuts.
One side had raised a bump in the bottom of the exhaust port floor for clearance.
The other side must have had a little extra thickness to the port floor and when it bottomed out it pulled the helicoil instead. Dumb mistake but at least I know know why. Jim
Here they are trimmed off and threaded.
Now- why did it fail. I found the answer. The extra length studs I had installed were bottomed out in the cap nuts.
One side had raised a bump in the bottom of the exhaust port floor for clearance.
The other side must have had a little extra thickness to the port floor and when it bottomed out it pulled the helicoil instead. Dumb mistake but at least I know know why. Jim
Now that is tempting.
Sad to say I have to do the layshaft bearing, should have done it ages ago, but got sidetracked with the Vincent Special.
Both my parents became ill and passed away over the last two and a half years, that took precedence over everything else.
Over this winter I intend to get the bikes fully functional so that when I get an offer like yours I can go for it!
thanks
Glen
Sad to say I have to do the layshaft bearing, should have done it ages ago, but got sidetracked with the Vincent Special.
Both my parents became ill and passed away over the last two and a half years, that took precedence over everything else.
Over this winter I intend to get the bikes fully functional so that when I get an offer like yours I can go for it!
thanks
Glen
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Thanks for the cliff hanger episode with a educational happy quick resolution. BTW those chamber surface look perfect long term wide use combustion optimization. L.O.P. is a two day journey for you, Wes does it yearly in car. We are only 450m-9hr away with Wes's tiny tank stops. I've re-torqued to point there's no more give to get. Its stays good if I stay easy 70 but any tapping Combat 2S torque spittles oil on LH and from under barrel and at upper case seam, but no smoke smell on the fly. Highly recommend shooting east enough to drop down to Texas via the Ozarks on Pig Trail Hwy 23. Best part of the whole ride might be before crossing I-40.
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When considering whether to forego a torque wrench on certain applications consider the following:
I just came back from a big mining exposition in Las Vegas where there were lots of vendors booths. One vendor was selling tools and had a prize for the person who could get closest to 90 lb-ft of torque on a wrench. It was a torque wrench hooked up to a torque gauge. I thought I was light and clicked out at 126 lb-ft of torque. The vendor said most everybody topped out. This was a real eye opener for me.
Now I have wrenched for some time and thought I had a handle on this but hitting 140% of target torque was a real eye opener. I suppose if you were doing this day in and day out it would be considerably closer to 90 lb-ft. When you think about it, there are so many variables such as: are you pushing or pulling the wrench, bracing yourself, holding your tongue on the left or right side etc...
For a Norton cylinder head I nip it up by wrench and then properly torque as best as I can.
I just came back from a big mining exposition in Las Vegas where there were lots of vendors booths. One vendor was selling tools and had a prize for the person who could get closest to 90 lb-ft of torque on a wrench. It was a torque wrench hooked up to a torque gauge. I thought I was light and clicked out at 126 lb-ft of torque. The vendor said most everybody topped out. This was a real eye opener for me.
Now I have wrenched for some time and thought I had a handle on this but hitting 140% of target torque was a real eye opener. I suppose if you were doing this day in and day out it would be considerably closer to 90 lb-ft. When you think about it, there are so many variables such as: are you pushing or pulling the wrench, bracing yourself, holding your tongue on the left or right side etc...
For a Norton cylinder head I nip it up by wrench and then properly torque as best as I can.
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