restore cost....ouch!

Cheshire bloke said:

I expect to put at least $10K US in my MKIII before I'm through. It still is a lot less than a pro restoration would cost or a new Norton from the factory. I look at it from the persepctive of having an awesome classic motorcylcle to ride and enjoy...how else could you do that if you want it to be nice and like new?

For $10K it will be a great bike, ride it and enjoy it dennisgb.
Here's a hypothetical question. If you could afford it and paid for a pro restoration would you enjoy it any more, or less?

CB

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From a riding and ownership standpoint no difference, but from a fun factor standpoint very much less. I love to work on bikes and build the best quality I can...so there is a different pride in ownership with something you build yourself compared to buying professional restoration. Not to say the there is anything wrong with either, for someone less mechanically inclined...getting a restored bike is just fine, and they will enjoy and be proud of their bike too.

I thoroughly enjoyed my two year restoration, my first restoration ever.
I bought my norton from a news paper add 4 years ago for $2,500. ( it came in 8 boxes )
If I knew then what the actual cost to complete it was, I would have never started.
Man ignorance is bliss........ 8) ..... Every time I kick it over, the pie eating grin on my face is priceless.
I don't regret a single dime spent, nor the journey and the knowledge gained. Not to mention the connection to the bike and feeling knowing I had a finger on every peace.
Total resto to date: 15,000 CAD........... Self gratitude and pie eating grin........ Priceless........ 8)

Knowing that you have put in all the graft and a few bob, or whatever you can afford, to do up a classic, is definitely well worth it.

CB

Decent bikes don't have to be expensive.

I got my MK3 basket case by trading a Honda CB750 for it. I had $750. in that motorcycle.
A complete rebuild cost me about $1400. bucks.
I rode that rebuild for 33000 miles.
Redid a lot of it again for $900.
Rode it for 28000 miles and stripped out an exhaust thread. repair cost $300.
ridden it 8000 miles since.

Summary:
Purchase price $750.
1st. Rebuild $1400.
2nd. Rebuild $900.
head repair $300.
TOTAL $3300.

That's right, just over 3k for 69000 miles of fun!

Granted, I had all of the necessary tools already and experience working on nortons so that expense was nil.
I have no idea how many hours I've spent working on it but labor costs have been none.
My bike isn't "concourse" but I don't care, I think it's pretty cool.
It has picked up a few trophies from local shows but nothing to really brag about. People seem to like it and I know that I sure do.

Now, I wonder how much "extra" money I have spent over the years on gas, tires, aluminum polish and oil changes and enjoying it?
More than $3300. I would bet!
With the price of bikes and parts today, I probably couldn't do it again.

Was talking to a guy the other day on a new Harley trike. He just happened to mention that it listed for over 32K$. I've got a whole lot less than that in these three!

drool drool! 8)

Instead of a lawn mower i found a ready to ride Combat, paid $4000, after a tense week with wife as last of funds moving states and no office set up for work. Ran snot out of it 6 mo's but it was worn and leaked everywhere possible so thought just a going though to re ring, bearings and seals but found cases skewed TRAPPED against each other about bending the dowels and also small fractures, crank bent and head swallowed a thumb nail piece of Amal slide and peckerd the snot out of chamber and seats and chipped a valve and screwed seats up. $1000's and years to recover plus other areas just as trapped bent rusted fused horrifically beyond what I've read of in my years on this competent list or others prior and escalations of Brutal methods to at least save frame with ruined trapped on swing arm as one example of Peel birthing complications. D/t a one in row stuck throttle on dead cold start up over rev tach needle pegging event took the spunk out of her engine after only about 7000 miles in 3 very intense seasons. At least by then I knew I had a world view changing device so realized even mo years of time and thousands in money turmoils to get the power needed to turn faster and lighten up more.

In interim found ebay Combat in shop a decade+ in New Orleans over T-day holiday so no one bid against my $3300. Last trip with my late brother Dale to pick it up. Put new fluids and plugs in and started right up to idle at steady soul melting 400 rpm! Responded to throttle perfectly and brakes worked [in fact likely had the worlds best rear brake as easy to lock on pavement over 45 mph and thereby learn about controlling tail end skewed slides] also tail and head light dim but ok so began timid slow easy legal riding knowing its a pig in a poke on wear factors but grinning at the bargain I'd gotten... 3rd wk after a few hundered commuting only miles going 50-ish low throttle level road it siezed to blew oil out cases. Found Al gasket rubbing on comma shaped oil hole piston parted taking out rod and cam and some lifters and oil pump teeth and a crank cheek. Fixed back with new rod nut but old bolts and no intense to run her like Peel, 3wk later corrosion not wear stress finally worked half way though the metal grain boundries to blew up engine even worse longer to recover. This does not count the deer strike that took out everything but engine, beat kicker and shifter back, whole front ruined to the stanchions, all metal work on RH and landing on me to bend the spine under tube to L 3/8". Still bent but unnoticed.

So how can ya really know what you are in for no matter the bargain at the beginning, you'll never break even.

Cheshire bloke said:

Here's a hypothetical question. If you could afford it and paid for a pro restoration would you enjoy it any more, or less?

CB

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Good question!
Personally, no.
That said I'm one of those who gets far more enjoyment from doing the work than riding the bike (for the most part). Even if I could afford, I'd resent someone else molesting my baby!
Not sure where I'd go in the UK to get such a job done, but the thought of investing 5 bike's worth into a single ride? :shock:
I was trying to photograph a very pretty '68 at a gathering at the Leyland Truck museum a few years ago, but the owner sat on it for all the time I was there - clearly the proudest guy there!
I like to think he did the work himself.

I took mine to the Garstang jumble recently and got a few flattering comments, which I found a bit embarrassing, to tell the truth. Great to hear the old boys telling me 'I had one of those when I were a lad' though :wink:

I appreciate it more going through the birthing process rather then getting it off the shelf

The Stafford bike looked very little used, infact the owner said he prefered riding his BSA, and looking at the big Norvil disc the condition of it looked hardly used....there was Many classic restorations there.and they all looked un-used after the rebuild...its a sign of the times these days, many expensive restorations just become show piece's.
The tyres ,and header pipes dont display the ridden look. Sad as it is, if you use your concours restortion it will not win the top prize, and over restoration will not get the best in show...these "Must winners" go to great pains to be the best...on a club stand some guy had ridden his bike there, it was covered in mud, The weather ws shite and the roads where muddy, i guess the guy was making a statement..." hey you pussy's. look at mine" 8) i smiled and after thought...good on ya lad! No trailer toy for you :!:

Hello,

I bought my 850 Mk2 in the Netherlands (I live in Germany) in 2010 for 6900€.
The bike was in a complete original state, but many parts were bad. Frame and
swinging arm was already powder coated and the wiring harness was in a good state.
Meanwhile I did a complete rebuild. I took everything apart except the crankcase.
Crank and camshaft looked good and with the standard pistons (worn) there was no need.

I renewed or overhauled everything what was bad or looked bad. At the moment I am
overhauling the oil pump which should be the last issue. I discovered nearly all known issues
at the motorcycle.

Here is the list of costs:

5000€ genuine parts
1500€ machine jobs
500€ wheel rebuild
500€ paint jobs

That is a fair sum, but it is better than new now. I think that is the price you
have to pay.

Ralf

Bloody Collectors .



Theresa lot of ' gunnas ' here in Aus . A field of cars in albury , all for sale for twice what there worth if they wernt falling to pieces .
Insists hes ' restoring ' them .

One thing with collectors , at least most live to see another day . Though theyve shifted the restoration from entusiast to ' profesional ' whatever that means .
Dollar signs more than anything . Traditionally a 15 - 20 year old vehical is at its leat value . Like the 2nd last model of a raceing bike . No use for winning .

Matt Spencer said:

Bloody Collectors .

Click to expand...

Maybe the only way to make money with these cars and bikes: buying - waiting - selling.

The restoring cost usually exceed the market price.

Ralf

Bikes that start out with "A quick tidy up for a daily runner" go very wrong and end up up with small fortunes spent on them.
I aquired a tri trident T150 V. It was the right money,[stood years] but it would not start. the carbs came off, Yes jets blocked, then it fired up...smoked like mad!
The rings had rotted away, bores pitted etc, so they came off, cam baddy worn...list grew...i spent 12 months sorting every thing...wheel's tyres, total repaint...
I spent a fortune...then sold it at a BIG loss!...Proving that a general tidy up is not really possible....if ya fussy :!:

My Bonneville was a runner in a good unrestored condition with 20000mls. It wasn't much effort to restore. New paint on the side panels, new rear rim, brake shoes, alternator, rebore and head job.
But the Commando's which are available here in Europe are often in a very bad state. You buy either a very bad but complete bike or a very good restored expensive one. Everything between is wasted money.

Edit: Meanwhile it is hard to get a bad complete one for less than 6000€.

Ralf

I restored a couple of basket case Ossas in the summer of 2009. One was all in boxes and free, the other had a blown engine(turned over, but no compression) and cost $100. By the time all was done, the parts cost pretty well added up to the retail value of the restored bikes.
So it seems almost impossible to come ahead on a restoration, unless you really skimp on the mechanical and concentrate on the cosmetic only, which would take all the fun out of it, not to mention make for very unhappy buyers. The best plan to get value from these restos is to keep the bikes and use them, after awhile the cost is forgotten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rssDEXqH3Sw

The best deal is, if possible, to find a bike that has been lovingly restored and the seller is just trying to get some costs back. A few years ago I purchased a restored 650 SS that fit this description. I paid the full asking price of $5500 as the list of resto parts alone far exceeded that. There are a lot of Commandos out there that fit this description, but sometimes it is hard to determine mechanical condition. A list of bills for parts and any shop labour always helps, tho it can be faked easily enough.

Glen

The trick to the restoration is to pick the right bike. And the right restorer.

It costs about the same to restore a Triumph Cub and a Bonneville to the same standards. Guess which one you have a chance of making a profit on?

Nortons are tough. There are a lot of Commandos still out there, and a majority are being ridden. The most I've seen a stock restored Commando being offered for is that silver MkIII at the Barber swap meet. $17k. I don't think the market will support that price from an unknown (to me) restorer.

So to recap you need to have a combination of the right restorer and right bike to bring the top dollar.

So what defines a 'restored bike' and what is a 'rebuild'? I have always use the term restore to mean it is put back to original condition based on what you can see.

My definitions are:
Restored: Brought back to showroom quality with the only modernization is when it cannot be seen. Such as hidden elec ignition.

Rebuild: A non runner is made into a safe, functioning runner.

I think it's important to understand what your getting into if your restoring any bike not just a Norton. If your building a bike for yourself to use and enjoy then it is all relative. Turning bikes for a profit is a crap shoot at best. That's why it costs so much to have one professionally restored. When we do it ourselves we forget the labor cost, so we end up making $1 and hour or less.

I've done all sorts of bikes and cars over the years and the core that you start with is the most critical aspect if you hope to make a profit. Like Swooshdave said, the finished bike needs to be something people want or has real value. The Nortons are sort of middle of the road in terms of value but appreciating. They have appeal and wide recognition so in the end the value will be there if properly restored. Not like a Vincent Black Shadow you found in a barn for $500 and restored, but still respectable.

It's also important to find a respectable core in decent condition. Not to say that you can't do the rusty basket case that is missing half the parts, but you will spend much more money to bring the parts bike back than one that is complete even when doing a concourse restoration.

Over the years I have made more money just turning over the barn finds to the guy who is looking for the core to build his dream bike.

Cheshire bloke said:

Yep Jed is right it's a labour of love indeed. I have got a couple of £000 set aside for my MK3 rebuild (coming along tediously slowly!) and adding up all the cash I've spent on it over the past few years I will NEVER get my money back. I would like to spend a shed load on it but really can't justify the expense, and like most others on this site, there's not a lot I can't do myself or get done at a reasonable price.
The Norton owners club stand had some good daily use Commandos on display, proving a point that not all 'classic' bikes are only an investment.

An observation regarding stainless bits, I did notice a lot of good stuff for BSA and Triumph, there was some more Norton stuff than last year but not a lot more. Don't know why this is when comparable numbers of each make were produced.

Rose tinted spectacles were selling like hot cakes though!

CB

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Ayup CB,
The production numbers were not comparable. If you look at the output of Bonnies etc compared to Commandos in the late 60s / early 70s there is a BIG difference. Therefore the market for Commando aftermarket stainless stuff etc, is smaller. Therefore, I guess, is why there is less stuff available for Commandos.
FE.