Registration / bureaucracy hurdles.

The next wall to climb over to catch a fully legal sniff of classic bike euphoria is the registration of my bike in the Isle of Man.

Story so far...

May 2022. Bought the bike from a gentleman in the UK. It was registered in his name on age related UK plates. He purchased from an importer, who bought it from the US where the bike spent its life from January 1974. He didn't bond with it as he was a Triumph chap. Although there was no service history with the bike, it did come with some paperwork. I'll come to that shortly. I insured it on its UK AR plate until it gets registered here in IoM.

September 2022. After sorting a few issues, I got the bike certified as roadworthy and went to get it registered with an IoM plate, however, only now does it become apparent that the V5C bottom tear off slip that I have isn't enough to proceed here. They need the full logbook. I remember the seller saying he wrote my details on the logbook and returned it to the DVLA, sending me the tear off slip. I thought this was correct, but apparently if the vehicle is going abroad (which the IoM is) he should have given me the full logbook.

The IoM Post office (who handle vehicle reg) told me to contact the DVLA to obtain the full logbook. I emailed the DVLA who advised that they cannot send a V5C to anywhere outside of the UK and to speak to the foreign authority (ie. the IoM Vehicle Reg - IoM PO). I craftily, tried a difference PO in the hope it would just get processed, alas to no avail. I emailed the DVLA again explaining the situation and the reply was the same.

So, it appears I'm caught in a red tape loop limbo.

The paperwork that was provided with the bike is the aforementioned V5C tear off, a purchase receipt from the previous owner, an NOC/2 Age Rel letter (addressed to him) from the Norton Owners club providing confirmation that the engine & frame numbers match and confirmation of the M/Y of manufacture, and also a letter of authorization from the from the DVLA for an age-related UK number. Lastly there is a copy of a certificate of title from the last owner in the US.

I don't know if any of that will help the cause, but I've put it in an email to the IoM vehicle reg people.

As we stand, I have 4 options.

1. Sell the bike.
2. drain it of all fluids, park it in the front room and look at it until I pop my clogs.
3. Sell up in the IoM and move back to the UK.
4. Ride it illegally.

So really, no options then

Anyway, I'll see how we get on and post the outcome up here. It could be that the letter from the NOC could help (though I guarantee I'll have to pay to get another one, with my name on).

Really this is just an obvious cautionary tale to anyone considering 'importing'. Make sure you check which paperwork you need to register it in your country. Sounds obvious, but I genuinely thought we had this spot on.

Any relatives or friends in the UK who will let you use their address to get the v5c from the DVLA?

Mart UK said:

Any relatives or friends in the UK who will let you use their address to get the v5c from the DVLA?

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Hmm,

Yes I have, and that's a thought. It just all seems a bit of a long winded, underhanded faff and a tad 'gangster'.

I'll ponder that idea though. Cheers.

Bonzo said:

Hmm,

Yes I have, and that's a thought. It just all seems a bit of a long winded, underhanded faff and a tad 'gangster'.

I'll ponder that idea though. Cheers.

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Can you contact the original seller?
As he apparently sent the V5C to the DVLA in error, the V5C ought to be sent to him, and then the complete document forwarded to you.

I had considered going down that route, but wanted to use that option as a last resort. Not that we had any issues with the sell/buy transaction, he was a great, genuine chap, I just I wasn't sure it could be returned to him and I didn't want to put him through the hassle.

I suppose, if it were the other way around and I sold him the bike I'd be happy to help if I could

Right! You/I have talked myself into taking this course of action. I'll compose an email to him

Isn't it odd how governments make laws/rules/regulations meant to stop unlawful things; but, much more often hurt the law-abiding citizens? Sounds like an IoM registration "boss" (manager, judge, magistrate or whatever) given the power of applying a little logic and reason could fix this.

Trust me, it's just as bad here - going to part a bike out for an even more stupid chain of events.

marshg246 said:

Isn't it odd how governments make laws/rules/regulations meant to stop unlawful things; but, much more often hurt the law-abiding citizens? Sounds like an IoM registration "boss" (manager, judge, magistrate or whatever) given the power of applying a little logic and reason could fix this.

Trust me, it's just as bad here - going to part a bike out for an even more stupid chain of events.

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Yes, I've read on here of the hassle/costs involved in the US with the cert of title etc.

It's like it's been designed to suck the joy out of life.

marshg246 said:

Isn't it odd how governments make laws/rules/regulations meant to stop unlawful things; but, much more often hurt the law-abiding citizens? Sounds like an IoM registration "boss" (manager, judge, magistrate or whatever) given the power of applying a little logic and reason could fix this.

Trust me, it's just as bad here - going to part a bike out for an even more stupid chain of events.

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Perhaps, but, what’s happened here is the process hasn’t been followed. It’s hardly fair to blame the person who’s just doing their job for pointing this out!

Personally I think LAB nailed it. It’s a simple mistake, the correct course of action would appear to be to contact the PO, get him to retrieve the V5, and send it on. Perhaps also with a letter explaining that he’s exported it to Mr B, etc. Job done.

Seems a lot easier than trying to work out gangster work arounds to me!

Fast Eddie said:

Perhaps, but, what’s happened here is the process hasn’t been followed. It’s hardly fair to blame the person who’s just doing their job for pointing this out!

Personally I think LAB nailed it. It’s a simple mistake, the correct course of action would appear to be to contact the PO, get him to retrieve the V5, and send it on. Perhaps also with a letter explaining that he’s exported it to Mr B, etc. Job done.

Seems a lot easier than trying to work out gangster work arounds to me!

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All very true.

Fast Eddie said:

Perhaps, but, what’s happened here is the process hasn’t been followed. It’s hardly fair to blame the person who’s just doing their job for pointing this out!

Personally I think LAB nailed it. It’s a simple mistake, the correct course of action would appear to be to contact the PO, get him to retrieve the V5, and send it on. Perhaps also with a letter explaining that he’s exported it to Mr B, etc. Job done.

Seems a lot easier than trying to work out gangster work arounds to me!

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I certainly know/understand nothing about the UK and IoM laws and regulations, and we have a saying: "ignorance of the law is no excuse". But, here at least for every law there is one to thousands of regulations. It sounds to me like both parties tried to do it correctly, missed a regulation, and now will be trying a workaround.

A seller who made a simple dying old man mistake caused a regulatory problem what leaves me with a bike that cannot be titled and the simplest application of logic and reason could fix that. Everyone involved (three US states) know that there's nothing wrong except an old man writing in the wrong area of the title and then trying to "get around" his mistake.

TBH just checked my V5 and does point out on 'new keeper details' to 'Please see section 12' where it states 'give name and UK address of the new keeper'

I know, no use at all now, but it is in the small print, which we as men are obliged to ignore, of course!

The DVLA say that when exporting…

You’ll need to:

1. Fill in the ‘permanent export’ section of your vehicle log book (V5C) and detach it from the log book.
2. Send the completed ‘permanent export’ section to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BD. Include a letter if you’ve moved abroad and want your vehicle tax refund (if you’re entitled to one) sent to your new address.
3. Keep the rest of your log book (V5C) - you need it to register your vehicle in the country you’re taking it to.

I could've helped myself by being a bit more genned-up with knowledge of the vehicle import/export process and drove it home to the seller. In all fairness, there are quite a few people who don't know where the Isle of Man is or confuse it with the Isle of Wight (or even the Isle of Dogs!) or just don't think of it as 'abroad'.

I've just found the email where the seller mentioned "All paperwork will be in the post today for you and the V5 with your details sent to the DVLA as well". Little did I know that would come back to bite me on the arse.

I've popped an email off to him, but not heard back yet.

I thought the IoM was part of the UK, and I guess, in a way, it is and isn't. Much like US territories, I guess. Sounds like if a part of the UK it would have been done correctly. Do they mean by "abroad" not connected by land or different government or what? What is the UK today? England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland? Would Northern Ireland be "abroad"? How about Scotland and/or Wales?

'What is the UK today?'

How long you got?? (or do you want the two word condensed version?)

marshg246 said:

I thought the IoM was part of the UK, and I guess, in a way, it is and isn't.

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"The Isle of Man is not, and never has been, part of the United Kingdom, nor is it part of the European Union. It is not represented at Westminster or in Brussels.

The Island is a self-governing British Crown Dependency...etc."

L.A.B. said:

Isle of Man Government - Constitution

Isle of Man Government External Relations constitutional relationships

www.gov.im

"The Isle of Man is not, and never has been, part of the United Kingdom, nor is it part of the European Union. It is not represented at Westminster or in Brussels.

The Island is a self-governing British Crown Dependency...etc."

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Ya, I read that this morning in a different place, but then I read: "The head of state, Queen Elizabeth II, holds the title Lord of Mann and is represented by a Lieutenant Governor. " (Now Charles)

From the link you provided: The Isle of Man is an internally self-governing dependency of the British Crown and its people are British citizens.

So, another uninformed US question: Are British Citizens UK Citizens or is there a difference?

Guam is a US territory, has its own government, its people are US citizens but cannot vote in presidential elections and although they have representation in congress cannot vote there. If we had a King, it would sound about the same

marshg246 said:

So, another uninformed US question: Are British Citizens UK Citizens or is there a difference?

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British Citizens as far as I'm aware.

Great news. The previous owner just got back to me, was gutted about the hassle, and will contact the DVLA next week and do everything he can.

Effectively in their eyes the bike hasn't been registered by anyone else and so they may send him the logbook (or a duplicate) back, that he'll fire over to me.

Fingers crossed we can get over this hurdle without further drama

Bonzo said:

Great news. The previous owner just got back to me, was gutted about the hassle, and will contact the DVLA next week and do everything he can.

Effectively in their eyes the bike hasn't been registered by anyone else and so they may send him the logbook (or a duplicate) back, that he'll fire over to me.

Fingers crossed we can get over this hurdle without further drama

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Cool!

Thats what I was thinking, if no one else is the registered keeper, then he still is, so he should be able to reclaim the V5.