The bike does get ridden hard but not all the time (urban speed limits, traffic etc) and typically only revved to approx. 6,000 rpm, sometimes 6,500 plus the bike is not putting out racing engine horsepower. I've stated before the original cases lasted for 115,000 miles before a genuine Andover Norton con-rod bolt broke, bought complete with new AN con-rods, so I'd expect newly manufactured Mk3 design replacements to last at least that. All I'm doing is highlighting the fact that there are problems with AN spares. The verbal response I got from Nick Hopkins (I think) when I telephoned reporting the bolt breakage in 2008 could not have been more patronising and as the part was out of the 12 month warranty I gave up. I still have the broken bolt. I would really like to hear Joe Seiferts policies on this, I assume he still reads this forum.
Al-otment, I am a bit at a loss what policies you expect me to have on a part- like the crankcase- that gives up after 35.000 miles, not to mention a con-rod bolt that was bought before my ownership of the company. If a basic manufacturing flaw existed on the crankcases I should have expected that to show up far earlier.
I would very much like to see the offending crankcases. Our buyer Peter passes through Wolverhampton every day on his way to and from work and has agreed to call at your home tomorrow to see the con rod bolt and the crankcase and take photographs for the rest of the team.
Peter can probably also help in some way to explain what exactly happened, being an experienced motorcyclist as well as an engineer who worked for Norton Motors Ltd as a draughtsman in the rotary era.
Since you first bought that crankcase we are now getting the crankcases machined by a different company, in a different material running through a different manufacturing process. I have detailed it in a private message to you.
From personal experience as well as speaking as the German importer of Andover Norton spares and one of the company’s biggest trade customers worldwide I cannot confirm your finding that as a rule
crucial parts breaking at 15,000 miles and 34,000 miles is totally unacceptable and happens only because the parts in question are not fit for purpose.
Your claim that original parts were always better and fitter for the purpose is contradicted by facts. Ask the then German importer who had to rebuild 500 (!) Commando engines in the year 1972 on warranty. Or ask me, the proud buyer of a then (1977) brand-new 850Mk3 about the tappet tip that fell off, the camshaft that was soft and lost a lobe, the rear wheel bearing that collapsed within three months, the layshaft bearing that exploded in the first year of ownership.
I am afraid you wear rose-tinted spectacles when you hail the long-gone “original quality”! I became a Norton parts dealer in the late 1970s when OE parts were the rule rather than the exception and could tell you a thing or two about their quality or lack of it.
I know for a fact a lot of things we manufacture these days are better than the originals, partly by design, partly by material, partly by finish.
That said, the comment of Kiwi:
materials which are currently available in 2014 are far superior if suppliers and dealers pull their heads out the sand and consult with commercial camshaft manufacturers find out which materials run together and last the problem could be solved
raises several questions. Andover Norton makes parts for 40-60 year old motorcycles and these parts should be 1:1 interchangeable with the original parts in the engine. Modern materials may be fine if wearing on another modern material but may be counterproductive if an owner decides to exchange but one part of an assembly. Besides I know of no problems with our current camshafts, but that is not what I am getting at.
When Kenny Dreer over a decade ago tried to improve on the original Commando he ended up with a different bike which has practically no part common with the real Commando. This development cost years and millions and ended in a financial debacle. I hear the new Dreer-type Commandos now produced are still not without problems.
Was Andover Norton to develop the Commando to something it never was- o.k., I know of two bikes which have run for well over 100.000km unopened, but then they are the exception, not the rule- then we’d be looking at investment in a region that cannot be harvested from the sale of spare parts alone. We would need at least one Bob Rowley type destruction tester riding from morning till night every day and at least two Richard Negus type technicians gathering the data and converting them into drawings and eventually spares.
We would probably end up with the 100.000 mile-with-no-troubles Commando - though I doubt the original concept has the basis for it. But then, who needs it? Average mileage I have last read in the press for hobby motorcyclists is less than 3.000 miles per annum!
It is impossible to sell inexpensive but quality parts and stay in business. It is possible to sell crap and retire in comfort.
On a forum where participants munched the question for pages where they could save another 10 cents on an oil filter- a part costing all of 6.45 Pounds that most owners need probably once a year- I found the above remark honest and refreshing. It goes on equally honest:
A friend of mine, who really does know better, still buys cheap crap parts and is unapolagetic about it, he says "I don't go far and I don't go fast, it'll do for me".
There is a minority of Commando spares customers who will pay what it takes to get the best possible quality. The majority, however, compares prices and, it being a market for enthusiasts (read: mostly amateurs) could not tell quality from chromed garbage if their life depended on it- which it sometimes, unfortunately, does.
This explains the popularity of some outlets for
parts-sort-of-fitting-a-Norton masquerading as “Norton Specialists” whose only concern is price, and never quality. Why does the quote
It is possible to sell crap and retire in comfort.
come to my mind yet again, I wonder…
Andover Norton’s credo, which I happily took on with the company and which in this now very much changed company still persists, is “
let’s do it right!”
It took a long time to get a new sense of purpose and urgency into the company, and to establish a quality control system that now makes sure only parts that have gone through our own- not the suppliers!- quality control get put on the shelves for sale. I cannot claim we don’t still have the occasional downfall. Sometimes a supplier makes an unwanted and unannounced change as in the case of the wrongly made and hardened tappet adjusters a while ago that could only be recognized
AFTER we knew what to look for. Or a part will fit one reference part but until a problem occurs we aren’t aware another dimension may be equally crucial to check.
Our quality management is being improved all the time in the light of experience. In the old days this was the supplier’s job but with machine shops reducing their staff the first to go were the quality inspectors, being “unproductive” for the engineering company. Therefore the Andover Norton “old regime” opinion “we don’t need quality inspection” was once partly justified- but not anymore.
A company like ours- like every other company- does not exist on cloud 9. We need to make money to pay the rent, the staff, advertizing, development and tooling of new product, and profit to give a return on my family’s investment.
We have a long-term perspective- my children are now the shareholders, and all are Norton owners and riders, again on road and track.
We also now have a new regime for warranty claims. Things are being dealt with immediately. We give the legally required warranty period on the goods, not some fictious warranty period others give because they know they will soon retire and won’t be in business much longer.
The company is no longer the laid back affair it was when I bought it, but then I think we all have fun with what we are doing for the Norton owners, not least because we are motorcyclists and for a good part privately own Nortons.
Name but
one company that does not have quality hiccups amongst the car and motorcycle manufacturers worldwide. I hear stories from within the industry asuring me that no matter how much money and staff are involved things do go wrong at times.
If you have a complaint or problem with Andover Norton’s products or conduct I can be reached by pm through this forum. I try to answer every message and to attend to every problem we can solve.
Joe Seifert/Andover Norton
