Power Arc brand electronic ignition vs ?

mschmitz57 · Sep 20, 2014

Wow. That's some serious "ugly" bolted-on right there. Can't that thing be mounted inboard?
Must make a real mess of the engine if the bike gets layed-over.
When I see this contraption sticking out like that, all I can think of is a movie quote by Arnold Schwartzengeger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wzQNzttSk

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(kidding...)

auldblue · Sep 20, 2014

Mark, why don't you just say what you think and stop dressing your words up?

I am thinking about getting one of those " ugly mothers" for my pile of bits, nothing to do with the fact that those who run them say their bikes go great with them. It's purely esthetic.
J

mschmitz57 · Sep 20, 2014

I was just trying to keep the conversation "lively" (and I was kidding). I guess I took the "blue" pill this morning.
The JH mag certainly does make a statement. Not sure I buy the argument that it makes much difference on a 40 year old, 65hp road bike. If Kenny Cummings wins races with Power Arc ignitions they must be pretty good (of course it's more about the rider anyway, not the bike).
I'll say this, the JH mag does give the bike "character".

OldBalz · Sep 20, 2014

I've had a Tri-Spark on my 850 for the last three years and it is well worth the money that I spent for it. I had a Boyer on it and it was nothing but trouble, even with replacing the soldered leads on the pickup plate with the mod kit, it is still a piece of crap IMO.

I wouldn't spend a penny on anything that Boyer makes. Again just my opinion, there are some out there that have had success with a Boyer......not me and many others that I know of.

Tri-Spark, Pazon and Power Arc seem to have a good reputations though.

pete.v · Sep 20, 2014

Fast Eddie said:
Can you tell us what aspects of it that particularly appeal over other systems?

It works over other systems. I don't know if it's my particular cam and cam timing (JS1 with 10 degrees advanced), All I can say is that what I have works the best for my machine. What the fuck is wrong with that.

I have said it a number of time, If there was something else that worked better, I would have it on there. I am, for the most part, unable to leave well enough alone, but I got to tell, my bike is there. I have diddled with this for the past 5 years now. What kind of idiot would do this? I raise my hand. So you see, this is not about boasting or showing off for I feel comfortable enough with the company I keep here to stick my foolishness out there for all to see.

Ugly? I'm sorry if you don't like it, nobody said you had to. If any of you find your way to Grand Rapids, please, stop by and take a spin. We'll see how ugly you think it is after that. BIITEOTB

To Each his own, you sons of a bitches. And you know who you are.

:lol:

Hobot · Sep 20, 2014

LOL! What'd expect here Pete - as who'd believe someone who also claims to prefer a a single carb on a Commando, sheeze. I'm waiting to hear your complaints of short life of rear tires myself. In meantime you can smirk on knowing you've impressed Jim Schimdt with what you've settled on.

Still after looking for any other cycle brands or people running into downsides with their Powerarc, I can not find any but pleasing reports, but for Commandos, which does concern me.

Fast Eddie · Sep 20, 2014

pete.v said:
Fast Eddie said:

Can you tell us what aspects of it that particularly appeal over other systems?

Click to expand...

It works over other systems. I don't know if it's my particular cam and cam timing (JS1 with 10 degrees advanced), All I can say is that what I have works the best for my machine. What the fuck is wrong with that.

I have said it a number of time, If there was something else that worked better, I would have it on there. I am, for the most part, unable to leave well enough alone, but I got to tell, my bike is there. I have diddled with this for the past 5 years now. What kind of idiot would do this? I raise my hand. So you see, this is not about boasting or showing off for I feel comfortable enough with the company I keep here to stick my foolishness out there for all to see.

Ugly? I'm sorry if you don't like it, nobody said you had to. If any of you find your way to Grand Rapids, please, stop by and take a spin. We'll see how ugly you think it is after that. BIITEOTB

To Each his own, you sons of a bitches. And you know who you are. :lol:

What I was asking Pete, is did you find it a better stater? Smoother idle? Any Increase in power? Etc? You seem to have detected a sarcasm in my question that was not there my friend (well not this time at least)!

I like Tri Spark because; on previous Brit bikes I've detected an increase in power (5bhp when replacing a Boyer on a tuned BSA triple) and improved starting, plus smoother / more reliable idle, plus better 'just off idle' power on a T160 when replacing an otherwise excellent Lucas Rita (I actually changed that purely as an experiment and didn't expect any improvement).
As the Commando is a twin, the Tri Spark has the added advantage (in my book at least) of being simple, with no separate black box etc. Of course, it is still a complex black box of black magic inside however...
And that is why I actually like magnetos. I like the fact they are utterly independent of the rest of the electrical system and the fact that they're not a black box of black magic inside. On the contrary really, they are a robust device that's been serving us well for well over 100 years in applications from stationary engines to warplanes. I would definitely consider one on my next build, but probably only if I have issues with the Tri Spark.

So, in summary, IMHO there is nothing "the fuck wrong with that" at all! And as you have actually experimented with other systems (in real life too) and have therefore had the ability to compare the mag back-to-back with other set ups, I hoped you might tell us what aspects of the mag appeal to you in particular, over these other systems.

I'm still hoping you might, will it help if I apologise for saying mags are for girls...?!

acotrel · Sep 20, 2014

If I was not so lazy, I would machine the back of the crankcases and fit a rotating magnet magneto where it is supposed to go. Because I am using methanol fuel, in a situation where the carburettors can cope (low comp.) , fixed advance is not really a problem. There is potential for improving mid-range torque by using the optimum timing curve, however the reliability trade-off makes the magneto option attractive. However only in the case of a rotating magnet unit. If it is the rotating coil type - forget it.
I really like the Lucas SR type magnetos - they are as cheap as chips, the capacitor is on the outside where it is cool and easily replaced (not inside the windings of the armature), internal earthing is not a problem because only the magnet spins. You can replace all the bits yourself and they are all off the shelf items. You find those old magnetos of lots of old farm machinery, stationary engines and marine engines, and they work beautifully. I use an SR4 for many years on a bike revving to 10,000 RPM and it never missed a beat, I had two leads to each spark plug. My friend still uses an SR2 on this Bonneville based racing Triton, he puts an 83 year old good rider on it and nobody catches him in a Period 3 historic race - ever.
This was a long time ago, however the man in the blue leathers still rides at the Broadford Bonanza each year :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbnGGl3m4KY

pete.v · Sep 20, 2014

Apologies back to you Eddie. I can't resist the chance to rant when I see a window of opportunity.

Although this may be good pub material, we are in only on page 2 of this thread.

My crank is stock along with rods and pistons so the short black, albeit rebuilt and tightened up, is rather generic. The thing that set me on a quest is the cam, and the radius lifter setup. The cam has some "come on" points, if you will, but not so radical that it can't be made streetable. After installing it, it seems, and still does, feel more than a stage one cam but as a back yard seat of the pants mechanic, I have only the stock cam to compare it to.

Mine was and is a trial by fire sort of process. I have no hard data or notes to share. My work was finding the most complete range of performance I could attain. It is amazing how dependent we are on the best possible idle we can get and it was always known and mentioned by JS the it was sure to be somewhat lumpy. It became obvious after trying different twin carb setups that 2 carbs and this cam would never be streetable for me. The story of the current tm40 can be found through the search. No need to go into that here.

The key word here is "streetable". Now that the I found a carb that would run with this setup, I now had to find that spark to drive it through the complete range, that is from the instance off idle to beyond redline (whatever that is with these radius lifters). Hence the Magnito!

So the end justifies the means here, for me anyways. My idle is still lumpy, atractive to some, but solid at 1500rpm. The bike is rather cold blooded and will pop a bit till hot, this may be due to the big carb. But then when fully warmed and drawing well it's truly something different from what it was before.

All this being said, this is just the motor and the running of it. All of the other things like primary drive, gearbox, wheels, bearings, brake and the endless list of required complement, have not gone without their due diligence.

Eddie, as mentioned, I don't have data or notes, but I think as a racer and experienced as you are, you can read between my lines and get the jist of what I have done and what I have. If there is any detail I might be able to expound on let me know and I will try to oblige.

Peter

acotrel · Sep 20, 2014

Pete, If you own a big old British twin and don't fit a race cam into it, you are not a real man. If the motor stops spitting back through the carbs before it has warmed up, you've got it jetted too rich. In this life you have to learn how to have fun.

Fast Eddie · Sep 20, 2014

pete.v said:
Apologies back to you Eddie. I can't resist the chance to rant when I see a window of opportunity.

Although this may be good pub material, we are in only on page 2 of this thread.

My crank is stock along with rods and pistons so the short black, albeit rebuilt and tightened up, is rather generic. The thing that set me on a quest is the cam, and the radius lifter setup. The cam has some "come on" points, if you will, but not so radical that it can't be made streetable. After installing it, it seems, and still does, feel more than a stage one cam but as a back yard seat of the pants mechanic, I have only the stock cam to compare it to.

Mine was and is a trial by fire sort of process. I have no hard data or notes to share. My work was finding the most complete range of performance I could attain. It is amazing how dependent we are on the best possible idle we can get and it was always known and mentioned by JS the it was sure to be somewhat lumpy. It became obvious after trying different twin carb setups that 2 carbs and this cam would never be streetable for me. The story of the current tm40 can be found through the search. No need to go into that here.

The key word here is "streetable". Now that the I found a carb that would run with this setup, I now had to find that spark to drive it through the complete range, that is from the instance off idle to beyond redline (whatever that is with these radius lifters). Hence the Magnito!

So the end justifies the means here, for me anyways. My idle is still lumpy, atractive to some, but solid at 1500rpm. The bike is rather cold blooded and will pop a bit till hot, this may be due to the big carb. But then when fully warmed and drawing well it's truly something different from what it was before.

All this being said, this is just the motor and the running of it. All of the other things like primary drive, gearbox, wheels, bearings, brake and the endless list of required complement, have not gone without their due diligence.

Eddie, as mentioned, I don't have data or notes, but I think as a racer and experienced as you are, you can read between my lines and get the jist of what I have done and what I have. If there is any detail I might be able to expound on let me know and I will try to oblige.

Peter

Sounds good Pete!

Anglophile · Sep 10, 2017

Well, after 13,000 miles my Powerarc has given up the ghost. I can only ride 5 to 10 miles without sputtering to the side of the road. After pulling the plugs I see that I'm getting no spark at all. After letting it cool for 10 minutes it'll fire back up until it gets hot again. Sounded like a carb issue (newish Amal Premiers, filters, peacocks) but it's clearly ignition related. After pulling the "points" cover I could smell that burning plastic smell although nothing obviously melted. Oh well, 13,000 miles isn't too bad. Any votes for the Pazon SureFire?

comnoz · Sep 10, 2017

Any votes for the Pazon SureFire

It would get my vote, or a good old Boyer with some epoxy on the pickup coils and wires.
No electronics under the points cover.
And a correctly timed spark on the first revolution for easier starting. Jim

ashman · Sep 10, 2017

Anglophile said:
Well, after 13,000 miles my Powerarc has given up the ghost. I can only ride 5 to 10 miles without sputtering to the side of the road. After pulling the plugs I see that I'm getting no spark at all. After letting it cool for 10 minutes it'll fire back up until it gets hot again. Sounded like a carb issue (newish Amal Premiers, filters, peacocks) but it's clearly ignition related. After pulling the "points" cover I could smell that burning plastic smell although nothing obviously melted. Oh well, 13,000 miles isn't too bad. Any votes for the Pazon SureFire?

13,000 miles is pretty poor really, my old Boyar was in my Norton for over 30 years with over 100,000 miles on it without any problems at all, not even a broken wire on the pick up, I am now running a Joe Hunt maggie with over 30,000 miles on it now still untouched and starts first kick every time and the best thing not relying on a battery or any other electrics, so 13,000 is not good for any ignition system.

Ashley

bill · Sep 10, 2017

never was a fan of the power arc. the LED trigger and the routine to find TDC without a kick back was a real turn off. it was also found it was sensitive to cam end play.

Mike B · Sep 11, 2017

I haven't read through the entire thread, but did anyone mention Power Arc only has a 6 month warranty, vs Boyer 5 years, Pazon 7 years, etc. ?

Mike B

Power Arc brand electronic ignition vs ?

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