police Commandos and oil coolers?

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Rohan said:
ashman said:
I think you are all putting to much into this, like I have said before I run my oil cooler all year round, my Norton has never had any troubles getting to working temps even in winter, I don't cover my oil cooler in colder months, I take it easy for the first few miles to get the bike up to working temps just like any other bike, <snip>
Ashley

Vincents quoted it took ~ 20 miles to get the oil to working temp, with their fairly large oil tank.
That could be cooler english weather though, and oils were a bit gummier back then, until they warmed up.

Whatever bike it is, the oil has to heat up the cases, barrel/s and how many kg's of alloy??? .... Few miles or 20 minutes, ambient temp, huh apples and oranges i think ... We dont all live it the same town, have the same bike, tuned by the same person, same fuel, same miles.. So when "normal" op temp is achieved is when :?: :?: :roll:

Give me a Vincent and i could warm it up in 5 miles, no problem .......................
 
I have one Oil Cooler on my Austin Healey 1957 and I appreciate his help on maintain the engine cool
in summer heath degree not overcoming 90° C (thermostatic control inside)
On my Norton I will have one also and recently purchased one used Lockhart
BUT one idea swirl on my head, take advantage from Oil Filter and simplify, no pipes no problem
this is just a sketch of the cooper heat dissipator that can be applied to the OF -without any modification
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/X ... directlink
to increase the exchange surface it will be annular, and cover all the circumference, fit in place by the
metallic hose clamp,in this position air flush have a lot of turbulence that can help the dissipation
Length of the dissipator must be reduced to permit the OF substitution
 
needing said:
My turn: Lucky I didn't mount the cooler in front of the head or it may have sucked the air right out of the aircleaner.

Owen - read up on Commandos with an oil leak at the INLET tappet cover - and the oil ending up on the front of the motor.
This is a well known phenomenon. I first met up with this in a dominator.

As I said earlier, folks have done considerable experiments with little flags all over the bike.
Not to mention in wind tunnels.
Aerodynamics is not all obvious conclusions...
 
I got to see most the crazy air flows up over 60 and also the witness marks where dust blast piles up. Spoked wheels split air but then grab it back into the middle to churm it outward violently spitting most of it out sideways off the nipple paddles. Could only see the moving flows from rear angle but backward head air flow makes some sense as forks could leave a low pressure behind them and I did see the barrel spliting air to slap back where carbs are so would be a higher pressure area that could be 'sucked' to front of head then bled off the sides. Will have to investigate this more for possible vane to help head flow. My paths send blast of sand to stones back so fit the splash plate to protect cases so not a spot for my oil cooler but just in front of oil tank tube or hung on rear area in line with bike motion so the rear spoke turbo fan the heat out of it. Air explodes out the sides of rear wheel of bikes out past shocks a few inches before grabbed by the passing turbulence, which well aimed peashooters help fill in the trailing expanding plume that rises close to rear of cycle to curl around towards the ground a bike length more behind.
 
John Britten put his radiators under the seat. If it wasn't for the stupid weight reduction principles he adhered to [ like remove fuel from the tank so the rider ran out 1/2 lap too soon.k, he would have won every race he entered.

The fins on the oil filter is a good idea. It is better than nothing, and fitting an oil filter to an earlier bike is certainly going to cool the oil a little, as well as increase the volume of oil moving round. Fitting a bigger oil filter will go further to helping cool the oil. Why not add a little scoop to direct the air flow which is hopefully moving from front to rear as we would presume. We use tell-tale's when racing yacht's to help keep the sails trimmed, but they don't work so well when there is next to no wind. Hobot idea of fitting tell-tale's and then studying them via a camera will certainly help figure out where best to cool the oil.
 
John Britten put his radiators under the seat. If it wasn't for the stupid weight reduction principles he adhered to [ like remove fuel from the tank so the rider ran out 1/2 lap too soon.k, he would have won every race he entered.

Gosh keri you don't know what knowing that about John does for me.

police Commandos and oil coolers?

https://www.google.com/search?q=oil+fil ... d=0CB0QsAQ
 
If you have a look at early dommies,
although splayed out a little the exhaust ports are tucked in behind the front wheel somewhat.

Eventually it occurred to someone this wasn't so good if you wanted higher compression ratios,
and later dommies have the exhaust ports splayed out a LOT more.

And more fins and fin area too.
Manxes etc have those big square fin heads, so the fins actually get out in the breeze....
 
Much as fast hard running needs heat bleeding air fins this thread is about more common sitting still or barely creeping while listening for sizzling sound and smoke before seizure. As mentioned they can be tuned somewhat to tolerate still air conditions, for a time.

police Commandos and oil coolers?
 
hobot said:
this thread is about more common sitting still or barely creeping

If the thinking behind some of these posts is based less on science than on owners inventing the science,
then surely that is somewhat relevant here ??
 
Has anyone got the time to study the air flow phenomenon on a commando? I have seen some vides of guys riding theoughthe Alps withcameras attached to their bikes. Would they have time to have fun with this. Could be a good positive, meaningful exercise/

gotta go for a ride, the sun is going down.
Dereck
 
Some years back, I tried a couple of little airflow flags on an early dommie, to see where the airflow was going.
I met that oil from the very-well-used-inlet-tappet-cover-gasket running down the FRONT of the engine quite early.

Cameras are a much smarter idea, peering under the tank while riding along is not so good for keeping an eye on the navigation.
And the results are different at different speeds it would seem, vortexs being the name of the game ?
 
comnoz said:
I used to have a thermostatic bypass for my oil cooler. It was plumbed into the oil return line. When I first installed it it had a 200F thermostat in it. You had to really use the bike long and hard in hot weather to ever see it open.

Then I put a 180 degree thermostat in it. Even with the lower temp stat I would still see cylinder head temps around 500 degrees before I would ever get any flow through the cooler.

A few years ago I removed the thermostat completely and changed the oil lines around so just the oil that is going to the head runs through the cooler. It looked to me like the head needed the cooling help more than the oil in the tank. I have liked the result and noticed the oil does not get dark as soon. Jim

Makes a lot of sense, Jim.
Do you have a picture of your routing/setup/size of cooler?
 
Very good to know Jim found head oil cooler is best idea, who'd of thot. I can't bring myself to fit a box of fins cooler after looking over www scope of em and wrapping tube around frame member prevents removal so thinking a DIY cylinder, inlet at bottom out at top to tiddy up hoses. i already know where to put it out of the wind. I Don't expect any extra head cooling but maybe prevent lingering head oil not to get frying hot.

entertain brain on Commando kissing cousins to see if the implications sink in but not letting cat out the bag on which cools engine better fan on a oil cooler on on head fins.

I watched a video about this. When the TC was in development, there was a problem with the oil temp being too high with normal use. Design would't let them use an oil cooler, and making the cooling fins larger didn't cure it. Someone on the team figured out that the high oil temps were caused by oil returning from the heads, so they restricted the flow.

XR1200 heads have extra oil passages milled in them. There is an additional oil feed that fills the heads with oil, draws off heat and drains it separately out to the oil tank. This oil flow is completely separate from the top end oil flow through the rocker arms, and it is an effective means of pulling down the heat in the heads. The heads also require a different head gasket because of how the oil passages are formed. Maybe if HD did this on the CVO 110s, they wouldn't be having such a problem with the heads and cylinder liners...

Hmmm
http://thekneeslider.com/harley-davidso ... ds-patent/
 
xbacksideslider said:
Makes a lot of sense, Jim.
Do you have a picture of your routing/setup/size of cooler?

I have two Setrab oil coolers in series. Part number 141.06 as seen here.

http://www.setrabusa.com/pdf/ProLine_SLM_Dims.pdf

They are mounted behind the vents on the side of my fairing and air comes into the fairing through an inlet low on the nose.

police Commandos and oil coolers?


I have two bulkhead connectors feeding in and out of the fairing. The RH side comes from the distribution block on my oil filter and the left side goes straight to the head.

police Commandos and oil coolers?
 
Wow. Well done. Those Setrabs are sweet, "fit anywhere," not serpentine with end tanks and proper fittings.

I'm speculating on the routing. Right side cooler is fed from the high side of the oil filter, then across in series to the left side cooler, then into the head. Do I understand that correctly? Why not from the stock location - the timing chest high side top end oil distribution line? Greater flow and no real need for high pressure? And, I guess the pump handles the increased volume on the scavenge low side?
 
xbacksideslider said:
Wow. Well done. Those Setrabs are sweet, "fit anywhere," not serpentine with end tanks and proper fittings.

I'm speculating on the routing. Right side cooler is fed from the high side of the oil filter, then across in series to the left side cooler, then into the head. Do I understand that correctly? Why not from the stock location - the timing chest high side top end oil distribution line? Greater flow and no real need for high pressure? And, I guess the pump handles the increased volume on the scavenge low side?

My oil filter has been re-plumbed to the pressure side of my oil pump. [fancy machine work on the cover]
IE, The oil leaves the tank and goes to the pump, from the pump it goes to the oil filter, I have a custom oil filter base with one inlet and three outlets. One outlet goes to the timing cover where it feeds the crank and pressure relief valve, Another goes to the cam feed, The third goes to the oil coolers and on to the head.

The scavenge pump returns oil directly to the tank. [no filter in that line]

If the standard filter setup was in use I would have run the line from the timing cover to the coolers and on to the head. The head definitely needs pressure feed. Jim
 
what will archeologists think about the owners connecttions on discovering comnoz's Commando? Jim found factory pump couldn't keep up with the extra flow of drilled cam shaft so created a bigger pump to move more oil faster. I just love functional side crowling vents so put Z28 ones in my hotted up Chevy van.
Questions, always guestions. Jim, that's like double the cooling of regular oil coolers, so do ya have an idea of the temps entering head? Don't think one could cool head oil too much as long as could still flow enough might even refrigurate it for special occassions as long as not too much thermal shock. Anyway thanks for expanding my heat dump sense of scale involved. Harley and others ran into oil cooler size to make much over all difference so concentrating coolest oil in head is Peel plan and poor ole Trixie will just have to avoid parades and police duty.
 
hobot said:
Jim found factory pump couldn't keep up with the extra flow of drilled cam shaft so created a bigger pump to move more oil faster.

Does the factory pump put out not enough oil though ?
Has anyone explored how much goes out the PRV pressure relief pump,
and WHEN it goes out the PRV ??

Does Jims engine still have the conrod squirt holes ?
 
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