police Commandos and oil coolers?

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ashman said:
its only our spring here now and already have had days over 35c
And over 40+ degrees inland.

Isn't Qld currently having its hottest spring time temps ever recorded ?
Given that the G20 is meeting there, and its forecast to hit 40 degrees C over the weekend,
a perfect backdrop for them to discuss climate change measures....

We diverge, slightly, from the topic at hand.
 
Rohan said:
NZ being renowned for its ferociously hot summers ?

Don't recall seeing anything much in this respect on police bikes, anywhere. ?
Although deeper sump kits for Guzzis and BMs are available,
as much for the extra oil capacity as anything.
Which may be where oil coolers gain some kudos, oil cooling abilities aside.

If you used the extra space of a deep sump to put more oil in, the guzzi's would blow it out. The extra volume was best used to reduce the compression ration in the crankcase.
The basic problem was inadequate crankcase pressure control. What had been fine on the original 700cc, slower revving engines was overchallenged by a 950cc motor with an +8000rpm limit. Sound familiar?
Guzzi's, the big block ones like mine, hold 3 litres/quarts. Any more goes straight out the breather.
They run noticeably cooler using Mobil 1. Even in +40C temps in southern Europe.
UK not being known for its ferociously hot summers either.

No idea about the BMW's.

Back to Nortons
 
needing said:
Nah. We had an election last year and the majority decided climate change is not real.

Joke. !?
I took part in that election - and the comments about the winner are mostly along the lines of
head-in-the-sand, climate skeptic, the voters were conned, shag on a rock, etc etc.
And rising sea temps, melting glaciers, weather systems moving south, the Barrier Reef disappearing,
and farmers noting the rain systems are altering would all suggest otherwise.
And NZ and the UK conservative govts among many criticizing Oz's backwards looking stance.

Makes for hot riding weather too...
 
nickguzzi said:
If you used the extra space of a deep sump to put more oil in, the guzzi's would blow it out. The extra volume was best used to reduce the compression ration in the crankcase.
<snip>
No idea about the BMW's.

I've had both a Guzzi and BMs - without sump extensions.
3 litres is more than a basic Guzzi had ?
And the BM gained some oil capacity.

Same as a Norton would with an oil cooler.
 
"SAust has already had 2x 38+°C days in the last week (still spring) - makes for hot riding but I just can't bring myself to do it in shorts and sandals."

M E S H GEAR is the word. We rode without gear on hot days years ago, no longer do we have to.

police Commandos and oil coolers?


police Commandos and oil coolers?
 
It might be worth lifting the needles one notch, and fitting one size bigger mains, in the hot weather. The motor tends to run a bit richer when the air is hot. When the weather gets really hot, even if your bike is tuned rich to suit the cold the jetting might still be too lean. It is probably a bit of a balancing act and you might have to tolerate the bike being a bit sluggish in the heat, if you don't want the oil getting too hot.
 
Rohan said:
I've had both a Guzzi and BMs - without sump extensions.
3 litres is more than a basic Guzzi had ?
And the BM gained some oil capacity.

Same as a Norton would with an oil cooler.

Many people have totally unmodified bikes. If it works for them out the crate then that's great.

It's my lot to be an inveterate messer with my vehicles. IN 50 odd years none of them has remained standard for long. Even my shopping car has been chipped, brakes uprated and suspension tweeked. Tis my burden.
Not much on wash and polish.

No, the official oil capacity of a big block Guzzi is 3 litres. The earlier 850 big blocks are speced at 3.5l.
Are you thinking of the small block, based on the V50?
 
Car engine type motorcycles.

Those engines have little in common with a dry sump Norton engine.

They are wet sump with no form of crankshaft windage control be it baffle or scrapers.
The crankshaft is a rotating mass of rope like oil clinging to it in motion, the sump level drops so they add depth to the sump for more capacity. :lol:
Unmodified anything is for people who know no better.
How many posts on the internet of pulled threads in the blocks of dynamo Moto Guzzi's ? (1000's)
The dynamo bracket mount holes are some 30 mm deep but are only tapped M8 a small portion of that so the threads fail when the bolts come loose.
The case vent is a joke but plenty retain it and add band aids externally because they know no better.
 
I only replied to a post which had factual errors about guzzi's. Just like most on here would do if they saw a factual error about Nortons.

The factory never made any 1000cc bikes other than the Daytonas - the ones marked as such were actually 949 or 972cc.
The dynamo was never fitted to any 950 bikes either. Various Loop Frame models, with 700, 750 and 850 had dynamos. The replacement, the seminal V7 Sport came with the alternator and Tonti frame in 1971.

Every wet sump motor (there are billions to choose from) will do the whirling oil trick. Sure an oil scraper or screen would help, and these are available now in the aftermarket for guzzi's.
As I have already said twice now, the sump extension was not for greater oil capacity, but to increase the crankcase volume so the peak crank case pressure was reduced. The spacer worked, but only if you used the same amount of oil. Any extra would be blown out the breather.
The engine was designed as a 700cc, increasing the swept volume +30% without any change to the crankcase breathing or addressing the different pressure differentials was dumb.
There is plenty of oil in a road going guzzi engine with the 3 litres in. The oil pick up is in the bottom of the sump. The suck side of the oil pump is only about 1 1/2" above the base of the pan.

Guzzi's otherwise had pretty decent oil control. They don't generally burn much oil, so you don't need to put any extra in "for luck". My bike can do a 3000 mile jaunt round France. Blatting over as many passes as I can fit in. The 180 miles from Dover to home is usually done at max available thrust. Oil still not be at the bottom of the mark. And ready to take me to work next morning.
My bike has done 160,000 miles now. Will hold any speed it can make - indicated 130ish, maybe 115 to 120? - for as long as there is fuel in the tank. Reliability and durability is like a big V8, a good one at that, just keeps on keeping on.
There is a list of irritating stuff which the factory could have done at almost no cost, but never did on the Tonti bikes at least.
It would have been much better if guzzi had added scrapers or a screen and used a proper crankcase ventilation system, but maybe they never saw that high speed film made by GM. I'm sure something like Jim Comstock's idea, using a reed valve would work wonderfully.

The guzzi's are a mechanical device and behave as such, they occasionally break down or succumb to an inherent design weakness. Just like any and every other mechanical device.
 
A standard guzzi can only run 2.5 litres in the sump.
Any more and it will just blow it out.

So if adding the sump extension allows 3 litres,
that is more oil, no ??
 
needing said:
I know I don't do sarcasm very well but I was trying to have a go at the majority. I guess it was too subtle. Yes, it was a joke. Boom boom!

Just thought we would be clear here, sarcasm doesn't come through bare words very well.
And many here don't know the sad state of politics involved....

But we diverge, again...
 
Rohan said:
A standard guzzi can only run 2.5 litres in the sump.
Any more and it will just blow it out.

So if adding the sump extension allows 3 litres,
that is more oil, no ??


No idea where you get your info from Rohan, but the official guzzi manual, the hayes manual and Greg Benders excellent site all give 3 litres as the recommended oil level.
This was the spec for Tonti framed, 2 valved bikes. Post Tonti, Daytona and other high cam and OttoValvo engines may be different. But you said "Basic" guzzi's.
I guess if you don't have a spacer, then the 2.5l will work fine.
With the spacer 3 litres works. No excessive oil venting.
In my experience, guzzi's are not into burning oil if well maintained, and will run at the lower oil level very successfully.
 
needing said:
Plus or minus 1/2 litre of oil in a wet sump Moto Guzzi has what relavence to the original question, my Commando, any other Commando or Nortons in general? Flame up PM fellas.

Indeed !!
 
The discussion was that adding oil capacity to a bike improves longevity - whether it be through deeper sumps,
or oil coolers. And whether also cooling that oil has any relevance.
And when someone chimes in with 'facts' that aren't quite, we go to town, as usual !
Quite relevant here, given some of the posts.....
 
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