police Commandos and oil coolers?

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Fast Eddie said:
I can buy that logic Steve, so, any comments on the viability / issues associated with fitting a small cooler in the rocker feed circuit chaps?
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No point in cooling cool oil. Cool it after its been in the head and you will achieve a better result. I am interested in how Jim cooled his head oil. I think the simplest thing to do would be to cool all the return oil. That way your only extra plumbing is the supply hoses to and from the oil cooler,
[ including oil cooler ] from engine to oil tank. Just as appears to have been done in the above pictures.

Dereck
 
I think you are all putting to much into this, like I have said before I run my oil cooler all year round, my Norton has never had any troubles getting to working temps even in winter, I don't cover my oil cooler in colder months, I take it easy for the first few miles to get the bike up to working temps just like any other bike, my cooler sits up the top of the front frame and gets fresh air flow through and still get full air flow to the head and rest of the motor.
My round alloy oil tank is only 3 litre capsitity, 2 litres oil and 1 litre cirulation and what ever oil is in the oil lines, without the cooler I wouldn't be able to put my hand on the oil tank it be very hot, but with the cooler I can put my hand on it without burning my hand, my oil tank sits behind the air filters and goes the full witd of the Featherbed frame and has also good air flow around it, but one thing is I have never had any problems with running to cool, I have had long life out of my motor, I ride very hard all the time, I ride all year round and like all bikes it seems to run better when the cooler month come, the other day it hit 42c and it isn't even summer yet, I was out on the bike and i wish I had a cooler for my leather jacket, but the Norton ran great like it always does and I have been running my Norton with a Lochead oil cooler for 39 years now with well over 130,000 miles.
Don't get me wrong but a lot of Norton owners here have rebuilt their motors with only low miles on them, in 39 years my motor has been rebuild 2x first time full rebuild, crank balance, bearings, rebore, head work and hotter cam grind, the second rebuild was just to replace a cracked crank case, so new second hand crank cases and new main bearing and slipper bearing for the rods and new rings just in case, I am still running the orginal valves in the head, the guides have been replace 2x now as the first time the so called head expert put the new ones in and it had cracks where the guides were inserted, had to get the head welded, of course he payed for it to get fixed properley, so I say my cooler has helped to prolong its motor life and this was a everyday rider till nearly 2 year when I brought my new Thruxton.

Ashley
 
I am sure current photos of the bikes you often talk about would also be good/appreciated by many!
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oh alright needling, I'll dig 6 layers into GeekSquad harddrive recovery for the not so current photo's. Photobucket change this yr so to see all of Peel poop up close tag on image view image then view image on pb image, then clt+++ zoom but must back arrow couple3 x's to get back here.

1st nerd-turd dial addict attempt, cheap car PSI, Temp, volts, ugh.
police Commandos and oil coolers?


2nd time Smith dual PSI/Temp plus vacuum/boost
police Commandos and oil coolers?

police Commandos and oil coolers?


3rdly added dual CHT and EGT in flying lawn chair instrument pods
police Commandos and oil coolers?


lastly under slung so less ape-ish
police Commandos and oil coolers?
 
ashman said:
I think you are all putting to much into this, like I have said before I run my oil cooler all year round, my Norton has never had any troubles getting to working temps even in winter, I don't cover my oil cooler in colder months, I take it easy for the first few miles to get the bike up to working temps just like any other bike, <snip>
Ashley
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Vincents quoted it took ~ 20 miles to get the oil to working temp, with their fairly large oil tank.
That could be cooler english weather though, and oils were a bit gummier back then, until they warmed up.
 
The historic Manx owners at summer rallys take at least 15min blipping in place before easing off, whether they needed too or not I timed them waiting to here em leaving. Peel is built loose as a goose so can roll off fine cold just not immediately at race pace unless a police chase. Peel OIF can hold somewhat over a gallon so may not heat soak on a few land speeding miles but may not pull max til oil thins, ugh.
 
I don't worry about what others do with their bikes, I just know how my Norton is, when you own it as long as I have I know every thing that is going on with it just by listening to it, I don't care about oil temp, oil gauges or anything like that, if you have all these gauges to look at means you don't have any faith in your motor or your bike, I would hear my motor noise change if something was wrong, we have very long summers here and can be very hot for 9 months of the year, when I brought my Norton new it would run hot from hot weather, the motor would make a ticking noise when cooling down from the heat, after about 4 months of this I decided to put the oil cooler on and I haven't had that problen ever sence, but I also run a 50 grade oil as well.

Ashley
 
ashman said:
I think you are all putting to much into this, like I have said before I run my oil cooler all year round, my Norton has never had any troubles getting to working temps even in winter, I don't cover my oil cooler in colder months, I take it easy for the first few miles to get the bike up to working temps just like any other bike, my cooler sits up the top of the front frame and gets fresh air flow through and still get full air flow to the head and rest of the motor.
My round alloy oil tank is only 3 litre capsitity, 2 litres oil and 1 litre cirulation and what ever oil is in the oil lines, without the cooler I wouldn't be able to put my hand on the oil tank it be very hot, but with the cooler I can put my hand on it without burning my hand, my oil tank sits behind the air filters and goes the full witd of the Featherbed frame and has also good air flow around it, but one thing is I have never had any problems with running to cool, I have had long life out of my motor, I ride very hard all the time, I ride all year round and like all bikes it seems to run better when the cooler month come, the other day it hit 42c and it isn't even summer yet, I was out on the bike and i wish I had a cooler for my leather jacket, but the Norton ran great like it always does and I have been running my Norton with a Lochead oil cooler for 39 years now with well over 130,000 miles.
Don't get me wrong but a lot of Norton owners here have rebuilt their motors with only low miles on them, in 39 years my motor has been rebuild 2x first time full rebuild, crank balance, bearings, rebore, head work and hotter cam grind, the second rebuild was just to replace a cracked crank case, so new second hand crank cases and new main bearing and slipper bearing for the rods and new rings just in case, I am still running the orginal valves in the head, the guides have been replace 2x now as the first time the so called head expert put the new ones in and it had cracks where the guides were inserted, had to get the head welded, of course he payed for it to get fixed properley, so I say my cooler has helped to prolong its motor life and this was a everyday rider till nearly 2 year when I brought my new Thruxton.

Ashley
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So in a nutshell Ashley, you recommend fitting an oil cooler. With what has been said here , I would agree. It cant hurt and there is no need for a thermostat. Someone else has put in a good word for redline oil as well [ especially with that test run on oils that we learned about ] I should check to see if it is available in NZ. I have been using the same sort of basic 20:50 shit for years. Maybe time for a change, though no to an oil that is going to eat away at my oil seals.
Dereck
 
hobot said:
The historic Manx owners at summer rallys take at least 15min blipping in place before easing off, whether they needed too or not I timed them waiting to here em leaving. Peel is built loose as a goose so can roll off fine cold just not immediately at race pace unless a police chase. Peel OIF can hold somewhat over a gallon so may not heat soak on a few land speeding miles but may not pull max til oil thins, ugh.
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That US gallons or 3.785 L eh

Dereck
 
needing said:
Good stuff hobot.
Just gotta ask - have you drilled holes in your sidestand or are they sequins? The photo is not too clear. smiley face here.
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Wouldn't be surprised. Looks like he has drilled the foot peg stalks as well. Shit with all that on the bars, has he got time to look at the road. Just kidding. Nice arrangement Hobot. Keep up the good work. Certainly doesn't look like an off roader.

Dereck
 
I saw the Manx's at INOA rallys owned by elite care takers so what ever they were suppose to have even if hand squeezed lima bean oil you can bet it did.

Saved a De-rimed rear that tried to swap ends over a crest at 50's mph required bizerk breaking off stem stop and crushing R front tank by bar strike then later a couple3 upside down events from a height took the nice out of the $500 tank paint which I'd prior protected 1st wk by fractured L5 on a berm crest a rut at base leaf hidden snatched down hard @ 12-ish mph.

just snagged four 1" dial gauges 20bux a pop but industrial grade cutie pies. I may yet do Peel OIF in thermal color change paint to watch oil warm w/o a meter but it changes ~80's F to whole frame may change to under color instead of just half. Would see oil temp change flowing along as warmed up then cooled. Air intake temp gets one of the temp buttons. These 4 are in addition to regular bar mount bulk oil temp gauge in dgital display.
police Commandos and oil coolers?


luv the winter time oil thread heat
police Commandos and oil coolers?
 
kerinorton said:
No point in cooling cool oil. Cool it after its been in the head and you will achieve a better result.
Click to expand...

The oil going up to the rocker gear is not 'cool oil' though - its just come out of the hot sump !
So there is quite some purpose in having some sort of oil cooler in the supply line up to the head....
 
Rohan said:
kerinorton said:
No point in cooling cool oil. Cool it after its been in the head and you will achieve a better result.
Click to expand...

The oil going up to the rocker gear is not 'cool oil' though - its just come out of the hot sump !
So there is quite some purpose in having some sort of oil cooler in the supply line up to the head....
Click to expand...

Yep, The small amount of oil that comes out of the head is very hot -3 to 400 degrees F. measured in the exhaust spring seat area. In the head is where the oil in a Commando suffers from oxidation.

Then it returns to the crankcase and mixes with a much larger quantity of cooler oil before it returns to the tank. At that point there is not much point in trying to cool it more.

That is why I cool the oil before it goes into the head. It's just an attempt to help keep the oil in the head from reaching an oxidizing temperature and maybe even help lower the head temperature a bit. Jim
 
Comnoz has found that oil in TS case volume actually heats engine up more not cool it, ie: when he drilled new drain hole to lower TS oil level that side ran cooler. The only area that heats oil most and needs oil cooling is the exht valve springs and valve guides. Certainly the oil on piston bores does too but so little so fast its a non issue. What does this imply for Peel's oil cooler fitting?
 
Rohan said:
The oil going up to the rocker gear is not 'cool oil' though - its just come out of the hot sump !
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Commando rocker feed oil hasn't just come out of the sump. :?
 
True. But it goes through the same oil pump as the oil coming out of the sump,
and picks up considerable heat - the oil pump acting almost as a heat exchanger, in an unfavourable way.

AJS and Matchy twins for example had separate feed and return pumps,
to completely prevent what was seen as this oil heating problem....
 
Phil Irving notes somewhere that the airflow behind the front wheel can be forwards in some bikes. !
I met this with an oil leak from a tappet cover somewhere, and the back of the mudguard became coated in oil.

This is a fairly well known subject.
I've heard of folks putting little flags around there,
and noting which way they flap in the breeze.

Maybe your oil cooler works 'backwards' better than you thought ?
 
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