P11, P11A, 750 Ranger Engine thread

[CanukNortonNut]

I think original P11 carburetor needle jets were 107's (Roy Bacon Norton Twin Restoration)
Making it a 106 would be good. Check your float height and get the idle adjust screw close to 1-1/2 Turns out. If its way off from that, I would look at float height. Original carbs 930-7-8 would use a 25 pilot jet which would screw into the body of the carburetor so it would not be hard to change. If you are using Premiers they can also be changed. Try finding somewhere where you can test with non-ethanol gas to see if that changes your plugs. Try 100l at a local airport or check at a marina for alcohol free. Try here: https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp
Cheers,
Thomas

 

[p400]

Yes, Thanks I do have 106 needle jets, these Amals are a new set of 930-7 and 930-8, 250 mains, 3 slides, floats re adjusted to slightly below level maybe .040", ……...and currently I am on nonethanol gasoline (both ethanol and nonethanol are easily available), my pilot/idle screws are 3/4 turn out, it will not run at 1.5 out (I am confused why)

My idle jets appear fixed. There is an oring brass screw plug where you find a replaceable screw in idle jet on a premier Amal.

So too much rain to try today, maybe later this week.

 

[CanukNortonNut]

p400,
A carburetor with a too high float level will run rich
4th bullet.
You say 0.040" thou. Maybe try 0.090" to get to 1.5 turns out.
see page 11: https://www.princeton.edu/ssp/65-cub-data/library/amalbritbike.pdf
cheers,
Thomas

 

[p400]

I am trying to understand how I rode this P11 successfully for a year , stopped to fix what turned out to be a blown head gasket, have reassembled the same pieces, yes it took two years and two new bikes to distract, and now have this P11 issue .

I am now remembering , during this recent June 2018 reassembly, I did rotate the contact breaker housing assembly to "tighten " the chain!
Maybe my timing is off? It starts and runs pretty well right now, but this rich running is my issue.

I will check my Tri-Spark timing, open primary to check clutch as well.

maybe I'm retarded, could be.
Cheers

 

[p400]

Well the retiming found the timing was retarded about 5 degrees. I was hoping for more , but 5 is all. Actually might have been less

another part that was recently changed was the air filter element!
I had used a Fram CA656 for a year, it looked dirty,
so I put in a Car Quest 87148, which fit about the same and looked about the same. Maybe a heavier expanded mesh than the Fram, pretty subtle.

I cant find any Fram CA656 for sale.

What air filter are you folks running for daily riding?

 

[p400]

 

[p400]

maybe I should be using a K&N?
K&N R-0990
Outerwears prefilter 20-1251

Does this fit and clear a Norton P11?
Lets see someones P11 fitted with such a filter please.

 

[p400]

These round elements should be reshapeable to fit the P11 air box. I do see that they vary in thickness which requires an adjustable P11 airbox center stud stop (see A & B above photo).

Air filter cross reference numbers. Please be aware that the size difference and method of construction varies considerably more in the auto industry , so it is possible that many of these filter cross referenced will fit a TR6 Triumph roadster sportscar......but not a P11 Norton airbox.....because of too much/too little something.
This list is a CA656 Fram cross reference.
AC-DELCO A2840C
AC-DELCO A915C
AIR REFINER 27724
AIR REFINER ARP-2112
AMSOIL S1043
BALDWIN PA1814
BECK/ARNLEY 042-8094
BIG A 93148
BLMI GFE-1020
BOSCH 73225
BRITISH LEYLAND 148600
CARQUEST 87148
CHAMP AF121
CHAMPION AF405
CROSLAND 845
FIAAM FL6179
FIAT 4110530
FIAT 4371568
FIAT 9622
FRAM CA656
GENERAL MOTORS 25043190
GRAND PRIX AF121
GROUP 7 A23336
GUD AG352
HASTINGS AF339
HUTCHEN APF-5886
HUTCHEN APF-5889
IAPCO A-0171-006
IAPCO AF55
INTERNATIONAL PARTS SERVICES 4-5024
INTERNATIONAL PARTS SERVICES 4-5078
ITM 110-5605
ITM 11-06306
K & N E-2540
K & N E-3402
KRALINATOR LA334
LUBER-FINER AF121
LUBER-FINER AF8343
LUCAS GIRLING F8250
LUCAS GIRLING F8260
LUCAS GIRLING F845
LUCAS GIRLING F855
MANN & HUMMEL C1814
MANN & HUMMEL C1820
MANN & HUMMEL C1820O
MIGHTY A23336
MOBIL A23336
MOPAR L-508
NAPA 2148
PURFLUX A451
PUROLATOR A23336
SHELL A23336
VERA 11-00700
VERA 11-01392
WGB SA-388
WIX 42148
WIX 42155

 

[p400]

I found a photo in my archives of 122913 some years back.

K&N type air filter, added oil filter.

I don't care for the look of the K&N, but the air filter looks like it might be better air flow.

Not sure about access to the ignition switch.

Nice, what appears to be, stock exhaust pipes

 

[p400]

Here is 128980 with Emgo small filters

 

[elefantrider]

My '68 has a thinner K&N with a metal back. There is a profile photo of the bike somewhere on this site.

 

[elefantrider]

Here:
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/post-photos-of-your-norton-p11.18426/page-2#

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/post-photos-of-your-norton-p11.18426/page-2#post-274702

 

[elefantrider]

I don't care for the look of the K&N, but the air filter looks like it might be better air flow.

Stock can filter has more surface area so probably flows best, also without the screen.
With that big wide K&N, it will harder to reach the key on a '67, IMO.

 

[p400]

Last Friday, August 10, 2018, I took a run for 90 miles, 45 out, 45 back. speed at most time cruise about 50-70mph, but 25mph for short time on return from major roads.
I am running non ethanol gasoline, because that's what I keep in stock for lawn equipment.

idle speed is about 1200, idle screws 3/4 turn out.
needles mid slot, 106 needle jets.

I am quite disappointed with sooted plugs. BP8ES

Never had this issue in past P11 years.....so I am looking for changes that happen very subtle.

 

[p400]

I kept some records, but none on needle slots or fuel or idle speed.

So I have dropped the needles to top slot, and removed the air cleaner perforated metal surround, and will change to 10% ethanol.

I did a garage start, still with non ethanol, and find the idle screws are now best at 1 turn out with idle speed at 1200-1300rpm.

Got called away, more later.

The perf metal element surround keeps you from crushing the element.

 

[pierodn]

I kept some records, but none on needle slots or fuel or idle speed.

So I have dropped the needles to top slot, and removed the air cleaner perforated metal surround, and will change to 10% ethanol.

I did a garage start, still with non ethanol, and find the idle screws are now best at 1 turn out with idle speed at 1200-1300rpm.

Got called away, more later.

View attachment 6164

The perf metal element surround keeps you from crushing the element.

Hi.
Are your carbs the new Premier?.
Usually the new Premier arrive with the air pilot way dirty and the small 117 air pilot screw that you can change with the 119.
Do you have rust in the fuel tank?
Piero

 

[p400]

Hi.
Are your carbs the new Premier?. No, 930/300 and 301, fixed pilot, .025 I think


Usually the new Premier arrive with the air pilot way dirty and the small 117 air pilot screw that you can change with the 119.
Do you have rust in the fuel tank? I have flushed tank several times, put in new filters in the Amal banjo....but I don't find any particles!
Piero

These exact new Amals (930/300 & 930/301) ran fine a couple years ago on this P11. Or at least I thought they did......3500 miles. Now that I remember back tho , the pistons and head were quite carboned up after 3500 miles.

Rather than guessing to try to solve my issues,
What are you people running for jets, needles, slides, needle position, main jets, etc ...in your P11 new Amals ?
Are you running original Amals? what specs?
What idle speed on stock tach?

Maybe the SpG of the gasoline has changed and the OEM Amal specs are not valid?
Maybe new Amal components are not the same? or off spec?

 

[vercu]

After a lot of testing I arrived at the following set-up:


200 main jet

106 needle jet, top notch

#3 slide

The standard setting was always too rich.
This is with high pipes and Armours silencers. K&N Filter E3402 in the standard housing. E5 fuel.
At least one P11 owner from this list has nearly the same set-up. He had the needle in the middle position.
I have now installed premiers with the same setting and a 119 pilot air screw.

Have done about 2000 miles now and the P11 runs very well without signs of overheating.

Hope this helps
Peter

 

[p400]

Thanks Vercu, I was motivated and have done the following:
Main jets were 250 , now 220.
needle jet, size 106 was 3971 miles, now 0 miles new.
jet needle, marked with two grooves, in top slot- lean.
float bowls resurfaced to flat with 320 oil wet or dry on a granite surface plate.
new tubing between carbs, air balance, old tube seemed a little loose.
new gaskets on bowl drain plugs.
float bowls set at .060 below top surface.

Ordered K&N E-3402 off Ebay

 

[pierodn]

After a lot of testing I arrived at the following set-up:


200 main jet

106 needle jet, top notch

#3 slide

The standard setting was always too rich.
This is with high pipes and Armours silencers. K&N Filter E3402 in the standard housing. E5 fuel.
At least one P11 owner from this list has nearly the same set-up. He had the needle in the middle position.
I have now installed premiers with the same setting and a 119 pilot air screw.

Have done about 2000 miles now and the P11 runs very well without signs of overheating.

Hope this helps
Peter

Yes, i think that new Premier, both 930 and 932, need to go from 117 to 119 air pilot.

About the set up, i run great my P11 with the stock 7/8 carbs that have the short main jet 250 holder, the 107 needle jet without holes both faces, needle in the midle, 25 air pilot, cut 3 sliders.

Instead, my N15, with same stock carbs 7/8 with 200 main jet, 106 needle jet, needle in the midle, 25 air pilot, cut 2 sliders, the spark plugs are very sooted (i think the carbs need a cut 3 sliders).

About float setting i use .080.

Ciao
Piero