Oil Cooler

Hi Guys
I'm considering fitting an oil cooler, has anyone seen one of these fitted?


As i have a T160 cooler I'm considering using this
Knowing that the rocker oil feeds on the Trident were taken off the return oil lines exiting the oil cooler, i am considering doing the same on the Norton... Any Thoughts / observations??
But i have a question.

As the oil pressure to the rocker assembly would be lower in fact none existent, do you think that the rocker shafts would need to be turned?

Pros
1. The (slightly) cooled oil lubricating the valve train can only be a good thing
2. Slightly improved engine cooling
3. Cooler oil should provide improved oil pressure
4. Increased oil quantity available to the bottom end

Cons
1. Increased weight
2. Fitting restraints/challenges
3. Aesthetics
3. Plumbing challenges
4. Not possible to easily/quickly remove old/dirty oil from the cooler

Not worth the effort but if you must then make sure its controlled by a thermostatic valve and only comes into play above a set temperature.

Cheaper to use a better oil that does not degrade at high temperatures.

The pdf in your link provides more details. https://inoanorton.com/docs/OilTemp.pdf
Which describes the oil cooler as a static heat sink in contact with the oil tank. Ie no plumbing. And it only reduced oil temperature by 15 degrees.
The T160 cooler is a totally different approach. There are some words of wisdom out there on these. If I recall, the plumbed T160 installation should use a thermostat that only opens when the oil is hot. Overcooling oil can also create issues.

olympus said:

Hi Guys
I'm considering fitting an oil cooler, has anyone seen one of these fitted?

http://inoanorton.com/docs/cool-tec.pdf

As i have a T160 cooler I'm considering using this
Knowing that the rocker oil feeds on the Trident were taken off the return oil lines exiting the oil cooler, i am considering doing the same on the Norton... Any Thoughts / observations??
But i have a question.

As the oil pressure to the rocker assembly would be lower in fact none existent, do you think that the rocker shafts would need to be turned?

Pros
1. The (slightly) cooled oil lubricating the valve train can only be a good thing
2. Slightly improved engine cooling
3. Cooler oil should provide improved oil pressure
4. Increased oil quantity available to the bottom end

Cons
1. Increased weight
2. Fitting restraints/challenges
3. Aesthetics
3. Plumbing challenges
4. Not possible to easily/quickly remove old/dirty oil from the cooler

Click to expand...

I would not take the rocker feed on a Norton from the cooler line. To me, the best way would be to insert the cooler between the oil filter and oil tank. IMHO, of your Pros, only 2. will be true if plumbed as I say. IMHO 3. is negligible, and 4. is not true no matter how plumbed.

The tank tunnel on a Norton will make plumbing a nightmare. On a Trident, the tank tunnel and rear mount are designed for the oil cooler hoses.

I've not personally experienced or read any info indicating that an oil cooler is needed on a Norton Commando for normal operation. Are you experiencing symptoms that indicate the oil is getting too hot?

MexicoMike said:

I've not personally experienced or read any info indicating that an oil cooler is needed on a Norton Commando for normal operation. Are you experiencing symptoms that indicate the oil is getting too hot?

Click to expand...

I know that the internals of the motor are sound, But when she gets hot... she gets Hot and to see the low oil pressure doesn't sit right with me.
I know i could take the pressure gauge off and stop worrying & i know that low pressure at tick over means nothings wrong...
Its also that i need a winter project

"I know i could take the pressure gauge off and stop worrying "

Yep!

The oil pump on the Trident produces much higher oil pressure than a Commando. My Trident was always above 70 psi even in hot weather. The Commando was doing good to see 40. I also suspect that the Trident pump is much higher volume based on it's size when compared to a Commando. I would worry about a Trident cooler overwhelming a Commando pump.

I put an oil cooler on my Commando when I was taking lengthy holidays in the South of France, a combination of a very hot sun and very slow traffic along the coast roads did concern me, my oil pressure dropped to almost nothing at times. I ran the oil return from engine to a cooler mounted high on the front of the frame, then back to the oil tank (1970 bike, no oil filter). It all worked really well, keeping the oil temperature down and oil pressure up.

Now when I ride the bike its in the UK and generally North of Preston, so traffic is generally fairly light, giving plenty of airflow over the engine, and the ambient temperatures aren't high 30s, so I've just removed the oil cooler, it wasn't doing any good, and was probably just keeping the oil at a less than optimum temperature.

I run a Lochead oil cool all year round since 1978 on my Norton as well when I had older Triumphs, but I live in the sub tropics and our winters are very mild we have very hot spring and summers here in Aus, when I brought my 850 Commando new and before running an oil cooler my motor ran hot with high idles in traffic, most will say not needed but I do think it's important to get the oil cooled down after its done a cycle through a hot motor and back into the oil tank, without an oil cooler put your hand on the oil tank, not the side cover but the oil tank and I bet its very hot.
I don't run a thermostat and even running with an oil cooler in winter the bike still gets up to road temp the same as normal, the cooler will just help with lowering the hot oil temp before going back through a hot motor, I also add STP (since 1982) to my oil with good oil, I get longer life out of my oil as well longer life out of my motor, my Norton was an everyday rider all its life till 2013 when I brought a new Triumph Thruxton which came stock with an oil cooler from the factory.
My Norton has clocked up over 160K mile in the 48 years of ownership and is only on its first rebore.
Most people think STP mixed with your oil is snake oil and running an oil cooler is not needed, well in my own opinion both have proven to me that they do their job and I have proven it with long life out of my motor and being a very reliable motor, I am still running my original valves in my head, my oil still has good velocity when I do an oil change, just by the finger test and still doing its job.
My motor was rebuilt back in 1980/82 converting it to the Featherbed frame and fixing worn out bores from my young days of thrashing my Commando (burn outs and high revving runs all the time, yes young and silly) but about 15 years ago I had to replace the crank cases from fractures around the main oil seal and a broken piece from the front centre stud the goes into the crank case but all the main bearings and conrod slipper bearings were still pretty good condition from the miles it had done since 1982, but of course all bearings replace and new rings and a light hone and is still going strong to this day, so as I have said the oil cooler in my mine has done a great job and the STP added has help prolong my motor life in our hot climate of 9 mouths in the year and 3 months of very mild winters.
As for a T160 Triumph they had a heating problem with the centre cylinder and one of the reasons the BSA R111s and the Tridents had oil coolers fitted, a Norton is completely different but getting the oil a bit cooler before going back through a hot motor helps, I also run a 3ltr round alloy oil tank which is expose to cooling and I can hold my hand on the oil tank without burning my hand, my oil tank holds 2ltr of oil and 1ltr air space and a bit more oil in the oil cooler and lines, so to me getting my hot oil cooled down a bit before returning to the hot motor is very important and has worked well for me.
I have run an oil cooler on all my air-cooled British bikes from new or near new as in my Norton case, but in England your summer temps aren't as extreme as our hot summers here in the land down under and sometimes I see on the news that England has had a few heat waves of 30c+ in your summers of late, well those temps are our cooler days for our summers and it's still spring here, on Friday the temp will hit 38c and the last few days has been 33c till a cool change next week before getting back below 30c and we have 1 month to go before summer.

Ashley

olympus said:

Hi Guys
I'm considering fitting an oil cooler, has anyone seen one of these fitted?

http://inoanorton.com/docs/cool-tec.pdf

As i have a T160 cooler I'm considering using this
Knowing that the rocker oil feeds on the Trident were taken off the return oil lines exiting the oil cooler, i am considering doing the same on the Norton... Any Thoughts / observations??
But i have a question.

As the oil pressure to the rocker assembly would be lower in fact none existent, do you think that the rocker shafts would need to be turned?

Pros
1. The (slightly) cooled oil lubricating the valve train can only be a good thing
2. Slightly improved engine cooling
3. Cooler oil should provide improved oil pressure
4. Increased oil quantity available to the bottom end

Cons
1. Increased weight
2. Fitting restraints/challenges
3. Aesthetics
3. Plumbing challenges
4. Not possible to easily/quickly remove old/dirty oil from the cooler

Click to expand...

Hi ,I have a pressure gauge on my rockers actually the left side of the secondary oil feed , when I start my norton cold it sits on 70psi @ im not sure , but say about 2000rpm , I have seen higher if you rev it , when on rides and fully warmed up it has 50 to 56 psi depending on temp of the day or how much I've pushed it along , if you have little to no pressure at the rockers , you need to check your oil pump seal or rocker shaft orientation etc etc . I think the cooler oil feed needs to come from the return line .

When the oil is cold it will sit high on the gauge till the oil warms up, why most British cars/bikes need a 100 psi gauge, I have an old brand new smiths oil pressure gauge that was given to me when I was 18 by a mate who worked in spare parts but I have never fitted it, have made a mounting plate to mount between the 2 smith gauges and the oil lines and fitting to mount it but never worried about it, looks good on my shelf with all my other gauges I have collected over the years, yes hot oil from the motor through the filter if you have one and up to the cooler to cool the oil and back to the tank.

In my high performance section of my workshop manual one thing they say to do is cut cooling slots in the front edge of the side cover and back edge to let cool air flow over the oil tank also helps with cooling the oil tank, but I don't have that problem with my set up.

By the time the oil gets frothy and the motor smells hot, it's time for a beer anyway

I installed this homemade oil cooler on my MKIII…lots of plumbing in SS braided hose…1 cooler per side+oil gauge…cools before entering the head…ended up being more bling than function…reduced oil temp by a whopping 7-10*F as tested
Rod

Shelby-Right said:

Hi ,I have a pressure gauge on my rockers actually the left side of the secondary oil feed , when I start my norton cold it sits on 70psi @ im not sure , but say about 2000rpm , I have seen higher if you rev it , when on rides and fully warmed up it has 50 to 56 psi depending on temp of the day or how much I've pushed it along , if you have little to no pressure at the rockers , you need to check your oil pump seal or rocker shaft orientation etc etc . I think the cooler oil feed needs to come from the return line .

Click to expand...

At idle on a 95F day at a stop light, it is normal for oil pressure gauges to read as low as zero. The actual pressure is 6-10 psi.

Since you're seeing 70psi at around 2000 rpm, assuming that your gauge is right, you probably have too many shims in your PRV or your PRV is bad. It would be interesting to know what your gauge says at 5000 rpm.

marshg246 said:

At idle on a 95F day at a stop light, it is normal for oil pressure gauges to read as low as zero. The actual pressure is 6-10 psi.

Since you're seeing 70psi at around 2000 rpm, assuming that your gauge is right, you probably have too many shims in your PRV or your PRV is bad. It would be interesting to know what your gauge says at 5000 rpm.

Click to expand...

That's just stone cold start up pressure , it is about 15 psi hot at idle .on the road hot 50-54psi I have a 100 psi gauge and 50 is straight up , so only a quick glance is required , no different to looking at the speedo .

Shelby-Right said:

That's just stone cold start up pressure , it is about 15 psi hot at idle .on the road hot 50-54psi I have a 100 psi gauge and 50 is straight up , so only a quick glance is required , no different to looking at the speedo .

Click to expand...

OK, that makes much more sense. I'm guessing that your gauge is reading a little higher than most but maybe the ones I've tested read low - no real way to tell.

olympus said:

Hi Guys
I'm considering fitting an oil cooler, has anyone seen one of these fitted?

http://inoanorton.com/docs/cool-tec.pdf

As i have a T160 cooler I'm considering using this
Knowing that the rocker oil feeds on the Trident were taken off the return oil lines exiting the oil cooler, i am considering doing the same on the Norton... Any Thoughts / observations??
But i have a question.

As the oil pressure to the rocker assembly would be lower in fact none existent, do you think that the rocker shafts would need to be turned?

Pros
1. The (slightly) cooled oil lubricating the valve train can only be a good thing
2. Slightly improved engine cooling
3. Cooler oil should provide improved oil pressure
4. Increased oil quantity available to the bottom end

Cons
1. Increased weight
2. Fitting restraints/challenges
3. Aesthetics
3. Plumbing challenges
4. Not possible to easily/quickly remove old/dirty oil from the cooler

Click to expand...

Unless you live in Death Valley or the hottest parts of Oz, then you certainly will not need one. In the UK, not even if you ride full throttle everywhere. From random sampling on various bikes even a day when it was 32 C, the oil tank temperature was not even near the working temperature of the oil. If you ride in traffic congested areas, an oil cooler is not much help in which case you need a decent oil.

@olympus time to think of a different winter project methinks.