Numbers mismatch

marshg246 said:

I guess I'm reading it wrong as I still am not sure what is perceived as wrong. I added the 850F to the frame number incase that's the complaint.

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What TW was saying is that the frame number on the documentation is 311032, therefore, the 105226 frame number in your list was wrong.
105226, however, is the number stamped on the frame, so, in my opinion, 105226 is the correct 'frame' number.

Time Warp said:

For the eight years of Commando production the F - 850 number was only used for two years (Mk2 ? Mk2a ? < some of ? all of ? - Mk111)
The Mk1 850 did not have it (Mk1a ?)
That is why the resource has next to no entries in the Frame column, because there was nothing to enter for the first six years (or so) and it was all but unused until the Mk111 for the most case. (based on the K post)

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The 850 F1xxxxx frame stamp began on the 850 Mk1 around April 1973...

...therefore, any actual frame numbers that haven't been listed by Greg is because the plate number was often recorded as the frame number on the vehicle document.
I'm sure that if the 'frame' number had been asked for then it would have been given.


Mk3s had a frame number (see DD's list once again).
The difference is that the later Mk3 frame number matches the plate number as I've already mentioned and the 'F' was also dropped, so the numbers are one and the same and not because of a lack of a 'frame' number.
Some very late Mk3s have a plate number that also includes the *850*.

Agreed that prior to the stamping of the number on the frame then the plate number is the frame number. If the plate is removed then the frame loses its identity. 1968 models, however, also had the number stamped on the frame as the plate wasn't introduced until 1969.

Time Warp said:

There was no need for a different frame number to complicate things and even if some legislation called for one with a prefix, in my case it could have been F - 850 - 311032 which could have been added to the data plate with little fuss at the factory.

Instead NVT went out of their way to complicate things, especially if they retained the 300 series number on the Mk111 engine and gearbox then added some obscure 100 series number on the Data tag for a mismatch.

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It's possible the 850 'F1xxxxx' number was stamped by Verlicchi as the frame stamp seems to appear around the time Verlicchi began supplying frames. The 'F1' frames supposely being those made by Verlicchi.

Time Warp said:

I do not recall Triumph doing that in the same time period, the frame and engine remained a simple same matching number stamp.

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As far as I'm aware, Triumph didn't buy their frames from outside suppliers as Norton did.

Time Warp said:

For the eight years of Commando production the F - 850 number was only used for two years (Mk2 ? Mk2a ? < some of ? all of ? - Mk111)
The Mk1 850 did not have it (Mk1a ?)
That is why the resource has next to no entries in the Frame column, because there was nothing to enter for the first six years (or so) and it was all but unused until the Mk111 for the most case. (based on the K post)

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AFAIK all 850s had frame numbers and all but 68 750s did not. The reason so many 850s don't have frame numbers in my list is people don't give them to me. Above the list I explain as best I can which numbers are which and how the various frame numbers are formatted. Also, it's not proven to me but I've been told that the 850s (pre-MKIII) with Reynolds made frames do not have the "F" and that the frame number matches the machine number.

The rivetted on plate causes much confusion. I call it a certification label because that's what AN sells it as and that what at least two of the Norton parts manuals list it as: "Label (Certification) available to Distributor only". If you read the various version of it, you could come up with a few names for it. Lots of people think that the numbers on it are the "frame" numbers and many don't realize that the 850 frames have a number on the side of the headstock.