Norton Dominator 99 problems

L.A.B. · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
Red/Black +positive(lightning delay)

Red/black goes straight to ammeter and from ammeter it goes to the main light switch(bakelite, fitted headlamp), and from there 1 wire goes to low/high beam switch and two comes out from it and goes to the main bulb (H4 bulb btw).

As red/black is the lighting feed and the system polarty is positive earth, the red/black must be negative, however, from the description it sounds as if it is connected correctly.

KuusistoNorton said:
I know aftermarket ones may not be that good quality, but i would be sure whats broken after all.

Could this rec/reg replace boyer power box completely?

Yes.

texasSlick · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
Hello,

Since the power box doesnt have anything to do with the ignition its little bit differend.

2 yellow wires from altenator goes to the power box, and 4 wires come out from the power box.

Red +positive
Black -negative
Red/Black +positive(lightning delay)
Black/yellow -negative(lightning delay)

Red wire is going straight to frame.

Black and black/yellow are "same"/"together" and are connected to the horn and rear light i think(atleast horn and stop light)

Red/black goes straight to ammeter and from ammeter it goes to the main light switch(bakelite, fitted headlamp), and from there 1 wire goes to low/high beam switch and two comes out from it and goes to the main bulb (H4 bulb btw).

Thats pretty much it i think, nothing fancy.

I would rather try out aftermarket rec/reg than order new stator which is much more expensive than aftermarket components.

I know aftermarket ones may not be that good quality, but i would be sure whats broken after all.

Could this rec/reg replace boyer power box completely?

By the way thanks for all the help guys.

You do not need delay function with magneto ignition. Thus you can disconnect the Red/Black and Black/Yellow wires from Power Box. Then connect Red to frame (as it is) and Black to main feed in the bike. For many Norton models, the main feed is the NP, or NW wire. Try this, if it works, the problem is in the Power Box, but isolated to the delay circuits and can thus be ignored.

We have no way of knowing what changes the PO made to the wiring. If you can, follow the wiring diagrams given above (<http://www.accessnorton.com/early-norton-wiring-diagrams-t23530.html?hilit=wiring diagrams#p326116>)to see which, if any, agrees best with your bike.

FYI .... NP = Brown/Purple, NW = Brown/White
Slick

KuusistoNorton · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Thabk you for your help.

Il try to find tomorrow functionl replacement rec/reg and try it out.

What comes to the red/black wire and system polarity i also think the circuit is ok. And i also think that it really is positive earth since when i attached battery to the circuit (battery positive terminal to frame etc.) It didnt give any unnecessary sparks, i would assume that if i would have attached battery negative terminal to the frame it would have been bad idea and i would have noticed it soon?(could it have burnt wires or something?)

This pic shows that red/black would be + and black/yellow -

However the wiring diagram which L.A.B gave me doesnt specify them

As shown here only Red (+) and black(-) has been specified.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

texasSlick said:
KuusistoNorton said:

Hello,

Since the power box doesnt have anything to do with the ignition its little bit differend.

2 yellow wires from altenator goes to the power box, and 4 wires come out from the power box.

Red +positive
Black -negative
Red/Black +positive(lightning delay)
Black/yellow -negative(lightning delay)

Red wire is going straight to frame.

Black and black/yellow are "same"/"together" and are connected to the horn and rear light i think(atleast horn and stop light)

Red/black goes straight to ammeter and from ammeter it goes to the main light switch(bakelite, fitted headlamp), and from there 1 wire goes to low/high beam switch and two comes out from it and goes to the main bulb (H4 bulb btw).

Thats pretty much it i think, nothing fancy.

I would rather try out aftermarket rec/reg than order new stator which is much more expensive than aftermarket components.

I know aftermarket ones may not be that good quality, but i would be sure whats broken after all.

Could this rec/reg replace boyer power box completely?

By the way thanks for all the help guys.

Click to expand...

You do not need delay function with magneto ignition. Thus you can disconnect the Red/Black and Black/Yellow wires from Power Box. Then connect Red to frame (as it is) and Black to main feed in the bike. For many Norton models, the main feed is the NP, or NW wire. Try this, if it works, the problem is in the Power Box, but isolated to the delay circuits and can thus be ignored.

We have no way of knowing what changes the PO made to the wiring. If you can, follow the wiring diagrams given above (<http://www.accessnorton.com/early-norton-wiring-diagrams-t23530.html?hilit=wiring%20diagrams#p326116>)to see which, if any, agrees best with your bike.

FYI .... NP = Brown/Purple, NW = Brown/White
Slick

Thank you Slick, i'll try that out tomorrow in the first place!

L.A.B. · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
This pic shows that red/black would be + and black/yellow -

Yes, it does so I don't understand from the wiring diagram how they consider the red/black to be positive. :?

KuusistoNorton · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Non of the diagrams Slick posted dont suit my bike,

However this one is probably one of the closest ones, not 100% same but close.

Alternator/rectifier is not exactly the same, and not sure about horn/stoplight wirings in mine, but this is so close i think if the problem seems to be the rec/reg box i'll buy new one and probably gonna re-wire it same as that diagram is, also since yesterday i bought that new battery im gonna also use it too.

Maybe in the future i will wire ignition key to the system and also engine kill switch could be wired through ignition key via relay(that is normal closed, it grounds magneto when there is no current going to relay)

It would be easier to work with my bikes electronics when im sure how its wired and have trusty wiring diagram to use as help. But since only electrics are the lights so theres not too many wires in the system anyway.

Is it possible to use any aftermarket rec/reg because of the positive earth polarity or is there only certain types of rec/reg that can be used positive earth systems?

Triton Thrasher · Aug 8, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Every aftermarket regulator I've seen has + and - DC output wires, so can be used + or - earth.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Okay good to know.

One thing that confuses me little bit is rectifier and regulator, i have understood that rectifier comverts A/C input to pulsing D/C output, and in that point it is unregulated D/C. Then the unregulated D/C voltage inputs regulator which regulates it non-pulsing steady D/C voltage.

Old motorcycle systems has had rectifier and regulator seperately? Does modern aftermarket regulator have nowadays both components inside regulator box? My local shop has some universal aftermarket regulators and im wondering if one of those could work, or do i have to find rectifier and regulator seperately?

Or buy that universal regulator and make homemade rectifier using 4-6 diodes between alternator wires and regulator?

L.A.B. · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
One thing that confuses me little bit is rectifier and regulator, i have understood that rectifier comverts A/C input to pulsing D/C output

Correct.

KuusistoNorton said:
Then the unregulated D/C voltage inputs regulator which regulates it non-pulsing steady D/C voltage.

The regulator prevents the voltage from rising above a certain level. Without a regulator, bulbs would blow, the battery is likely to be overcharged and boil dry, and electronic components would be damaged by the excess voltage.

KuusistoNorton said:
Old motorcycle systems has had rectifier and regulator seperately? Does modern aftermarket regulator have nowadays both components inside regulator box?

Yes.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello

I am now trying to find most likely 4 wire regulator from another motorcycle. There are many differend regs out there but i cant find easily any diagrams to be sure it will work.

Coul i assume that if regulator has 4 wires it should be 2 from alternator and then one is +12v and last one is -12v? There is also 5 wire regulators but i think its made for 3phase alternator.

L.A.B. · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
Coul i assume that if regulator has 4 wires it should be 2 from alternator and then one is +12v and last one is -12v?

Not all 4-wire regulators are suitable, for instance, some have an output wire and a voltage sensing wire and are 'case earth' so that type is only suitable for only one polarity (usually negative earth).
It also needs to be capable of handling the alternator output (120w). Reg/recs for small motorcycles/scooters/mopeds may not have enough capacity.

KuusistoNorton said:
There is also 5 wire regulators but i think its made for 3phase alternator.

It is often possible to use a 3-phase regulator by connecting the two stator single phase wires to two of the three AC reg/rec inputs, however, once again, not all 5-wire reg/recs will be suitable.

Edit: The electrical system polarity can easily be changed to negative earth if required.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Yes i was going to buy small engine regulator but then i realised it might be too small, and it is. The high output regulator (on that bike) is 100w so the original one is much smaller.

I found one good looking regulator which is Rec/Reg, has two yellow wires input(alternator) and red +12v and black -12v. Its says its capable to handle power up to 200w. If my alternator gives 120w and 200w is max is that too big or just fine?

L.A.B. · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
I found one good looking regulator which is Rec/Reg, has two yellow wires input(alternator) and red +12v and black -12v. Its says its capable to handle power up to 200w. If my alternator gives 120w and 200w is max is that too big or just fine?

As long as the reg/rec max. rating exceeds the alternator's output then that's fine.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

I ordered that 200w rec/reg box. Now im fixing alternator wires propely and was wondering does it matter which one of the two alternator wires connect to the box? I mean when connecting alternator to power box?

L.A.B. · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
Now im fixing alternator wires propely and was wondering does it matter which one of the two alternator wires connect to the box? I mean when connecting alternator to power box?

No. Both are 'AC' output so it doesn't matter.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Okay, so this interesting. I cleaned alternator wires and put heat shrink tube to the damaged wire. Cleaned all good etc. Putted it back and started the bike.

Last time measuring A/C voltage i got about 7Vac. Now its differend, way differend.

This is the way how i measured alternator wires with alligator clips.

This is at idle, it was jumping between 11,5-12,5Vac and was raising when revving the bike

Maybe 2000-3000rpm, showing 31,56Vac

Showing 45,7Vac

Last pic was really high rpm showing 51,5Vac . But when i connect alternator wires to the power box, voltage drops to steady 3,5-4Vac and not raising much when revving bike. I ditched red/black and black/yellow wires(lightning delay) and connected red to ground(frame) and black to lights. Lights were working but same problem, system voltage drops to 3,5-4V when main bulb is fitted to the circuit.

So could i now be sure that alternator is working propely because of those readings and the power box is broken?

L.A.B. · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
Last pic was really high rpm showing 51,5Vac . But when i connect alternator wires to the power box, voltage drops to steady 3,5-4Vac and not raising much when revving bike.

That's probably because it's connected to the Power Box.

KuusistoNorton said:
I ditched red/black and black/yellow wires(lightning delay) and connected red to ground(frame) and black to lights. Lights were working but same problem, system voltage drops to 3,5-4V when main bulb is fitted to the circuit.

So could i now be sure that alternator is working propely because of those readings and the power box is broken?

If, as you say, the system voltage drops to 3.5-4V (DC?) then unless something has been missed, it does suggest the Power Box is the cause of the problem.

KuusistoNorton · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

L.A.B. said:
KuusistoNorton said:

Last pic was really high rpm showing 51,5Vac . But when i connect alternator wires to the power box, voltage drops to steady 3,5-4Vac and not raising much when revving bike.

Click to expand...

That's probably because it's connected to the Power Box.

KuusistoNorton said:

I ditched red/black and black/yellow wires(lightning delay) and connected red to ground(frame) and black to lights. Lights were working but same problem, system voltage drops to 3,5-4V when main bulb is fitted to the circuit.

So could i now be sure that alternator is working propely because of those readings and the power box is broken?

Click to expand...

If, as you say, the system voltage drops to 3.5-4V (DC?) then unless something has been missed, it does suggest the Power Box is the cause of the problem.

Hello,

I double checked this one.

So when the alternator wires are connected to the power box, i can measure only 3,5-4Vac from alternator wires.

I measured also light circuit DC voltage and here is pics:

Measuring points are ammeter and ground (black wire from power box goes straight to ammeter), this is ALL lights OFF. 15,18Vdc

Same measuring points as earlier(ammeter - ground) and ONLY pilot light and rear light. 10,92Vdc

Again, same measuring points(ammeter - ground) and main light and rear light on. Huge voltage drop. Only 3,494Vdc

When i put battery into the circuit i all lights are bright and voltage stays same as battery, but its not charging the battery.

L.A.B. · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:
Again, same measuring points(ammeter - ground) and main light and rear light on. Huge voltage drop. Only 3,494Vdc

When i put battery into the circuit i all lights are bright and voltage stays same as battery, but its not charging the battery.

Well, from that, I can only suggest you fit a new reg/rec and see what happens.

texasSlick · Aug 9, 2017

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

My Atlas had same lighting switch as that in your posted wiring diagram.

I say had, because I experienced the same sort of lighting problem as you are having, only mine was of the intermittent type, and I replaced the switch with two rocker type switches to make the same switch function.

I traced the problem to the "rocker and roller" mechanical parts of the switch. There was poor contact, causing the same loss of voltages as you are having. The first time this occurred was most inconvenient .... in the middle of the night, in the middle of Kansas, forcing me to sleep on the prairie.

The switch has two functions: 1) to control lighting, and 2) to control a 3 wire alternator for low, medium, and high output. With an electronic regulator, you do not need function 2). Try this: temporarily jumper the two alternator wires
to the yellow wires of the power box (as LAB states, it does not matter which way). If this temporary arrangement solves your problem, the fault is in the lighting switch, not the regulator.

Slick

PS .... you might also jumper the NP wire to the U wire, to test if the switch is making good contact internally.

Norton Dominator 99 problems

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