Norton Dominator 99 problems

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Okay, thanks for the help.

So the box is lightning delay circuit and lights are supplied only when 10volts are exceeded. So when im running only rear light, circuit has 13volts but when i try to also use head lamp the voltage drops to 3volts.

If i hook 12volt battery positive (+) to frame and negative (-) to the wiring could i possibly brake something? Would like to test the circuit when engine is not running.

If i would attach 12volt battery to the circuit then lightning delay is no longer in use, could this fix the problem? Also if i would hook battery to the system i could also see if alternator is broken or not since i could measure if its charging the battery?

Edit: Okay so basically my bike is Dominator Model 7, it only has been fitted dommie 99 engine, so i think the lightning wiring might be closer to model 7 diagrams than 99? Since all 99 diagrams im looking have much more instruments than i do have fitted to the bike. Maybe i should just take seat and tank off to see all the wirings..

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

If i hook 12volt battery positive (+) to frame and negative (-) to the wiring could i possibly brake something?

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As long as the Power Box polarity is the same as the battery and you have no other electronic items connected to the electrical system then nothing should be damaged.

KuusistoNorton said:

If i would attach 12volt battery to the circuit then lightning delay is no longer in use, could this fix the problem?

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Maybe, unless the Power Box or alternator is faulty.

KuusistoNorton said:

Also if i would hook battery to the system i could also see if alternator is broken or not since i could measure if its charging the battery?

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Yes.

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

So i am gonna pick up a small 3Ah 12v battery and try to attach it to the circuit propely. I understood that i can just hook positive(+) lead to the frame and then just attach negative(-) lead somewhere to the negative wires after Reg/Rec box?

This way lights should work without any problems(if circuit is ok) and when turn on the engine i should be able to measure 13V-14,5V charging volts from the battery? (If alternator is not broken).

If that solves the problem, and my battery is charging could i assume that my power box broken? Or could just the lighting delay system be broken and rec/reg function still works propely?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Heres a pic of the alternator:


-Kuusisto

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Since i dont have battery in my bike, should there possibly be capacitors fitted to the circuit? I was thinking that if there would be capacitor(s) maybe it could be broken?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

If that solves the problem, and my battery is charging could i assume that my power box broken?

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If the battery charges then it suggests the Power Box is working.

KuusistoNorton said:

Or could just the lighting delay system be broken and rec/reg function still works propely?

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I think you will have to check and see what happens.

KuusistoNorton said:

Heres a pic of the alternator:

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There seems to be a tape repair where the wires enter/exit the stator.
Wire breakage at that point is a common problem so you might want to check that repair, also check the rest of the wiring between the stator and the Power Box.

KuusistoNorton said:

Since i dont have battery in my bike, should there possibly be capacitors fitted to the circuit? I was thinking that if there would be capacitor(s) maybe it could be broken?

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The Power Box should contain a capacitor which allows batteryless starting and running so there shouldn't be any other '2MC' type capacitor, however, as your ignition system works off the magneto then a capacitor isn't needed.

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Got out of work early today, and bought 12v 6ah battery. I attached it to the bike safely and then lights are fine, bright.

The thing is that when i measure battery it gives about 12,7volts and bike running lights on it drops to about 12,2volts so its not charging? I run it for a while and it did not drop under 12,2volts tough. I think im gonna let the lights be on until voltage is dropped to 10-11volts and start the bike and see if it raises.

If it seems to be that alternator is not charging could that mean alternator is broken or could the power box be broken?

Is there a proper way to test alternator ? If i take alternator wires out of the power box can i measure AC volts between those two alternator wires when bike is running? What kind of voltages im supposed to get if the alternator is ok?

Edit: Waited until voltage droppet to 11,7volts lights on and started the bike, no charging is happening.

Edit 2: If the alternator brakes, shouldnt it brake all the way? I mean could only possible thing that brakes alternator is the one that one of the coils inside alternators are broken. If i cut alternator wires and try it out with the beeping thing on voltmeter should it beep if its okay? (Between wires) if its not beeping alternator is broken?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Is it possible that i have attached battery wrong to the circuit so could that be reason why its not charging?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Are you giving it some revs when you test the voltage?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Yes i did give.

Now i measured alternaror wires and they were giving about 5v A/C and with revs 6,5-7V A/C, should it be higher?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

Hello,

The thing is that when i measure battery it gives about 12,7volts and bike running lights on it drops to about 12,2volts so its not charging? It Is NOT charging[. Should be at least 13.7 volts when charging.

If it seems to be that alternator is not charging could that mean alternator is broken or could the power box be broken? Could be either, but I would guess alternator stator.

Is there a proper way to test alternator ? If i take alternator wires out of the power box can i measure AC volts between those two alternator wires when bike is running? What kind of voltages im supposed to get if the alternator is ok?

Edit: Waited until voltage droppet to 11,7volts lights on and started the bike, no charging is happening.

Edit 2: If the alternator brakes, shouldnt it brake all the way? I mean could only possible thing that brakes alternator is the one that one of the coils inside alternators are broken. If i cut alternator wires and try it out with the beeping thing on voltmeter should it beep if its okay? (Between wires) if its not beeping alternator is broken?

An internal wire can be broken that removes coils from the circuit, causing a weak charge. The beeping thing I assume, is a Volt-Ohm-Meter. Yes, sometimes you can diagnose such a problem by measuring ohms, but you must have a well calibrated meter AND know the expected ohm values. Perhaps someone can post the values.

Click to expand...

Slick

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

If it seems to be that alternator is not charging could that mean alternator is broken

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Yes.

KuusistoNorton said:

or could the power box be broken?

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Yes.

KuusistoNorton said:

Is there a proper way to test alternator ? If i take alternator wires out of the power box can i measure AC volts between those two alternator wires when bike is running? What kind of voltages im supposed to get if the alternator is ok?

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Try this;
https://www.scribd.com/doc/157399591/Fa ... s-Aug-2013

KuusistoNorton said:

Edit 2: If the alternator brakes, shouldnt it brake all the way?

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No, not always.

KuusistoNorton said:

Is it possible that i have attached battery wrong to the circuit so could that be reason why its not charging?

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Possibly, but in that situation it would seem more likely that the Power Box was not connected correctly.

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Cant get it whats wrong with the system. When main bulb is not fitted and i measure + and - leads i get 13-13,5volts at idle (without battery attached) and with revs up to 14,5volts(without battery attached). This feels like it would be charging, but Once i attach main bulb to the circuit, voltage drops to 3,5volts and does not raise while revving. When battery is attached same leads show about same voltage as battery (12-12,5volts) but its not charging.

I have connected + wire to frame and - wire to the point where black/yellow wire and black are put together (so basically i have battery - wire and black/yellow wire and black wire same spot) light bulbs are powered with battery atleast but still not charging the battery.

My alternator gave 5-7volts A/C when running the bike, how much should there be?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

My alternator gave 5-7volts A/C when running the bike, how much should there be?

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I'm guessing your alternator is an RM21 so you could do the alternator charging tests in the Commando manual, Section J2.
http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Repai ... mmando.pdf

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Yes it seems to be RM21, its Lucas 47205, 12volt alternator.

When the bike was idling i measured about 7volts AC. I dont know what the hell is broken so what i think i want to do is to re wire all the electrics and fit battery to it.

Is it possible to make it work kinda like modern systems? What components i do need to get the system work propely? Rec/reg etc.

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

Is it possible to make it work kinda like modern systems? What components i do need to get the system work propely? Rec/reg etc.

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The RM21 should provide sufficient output (about 120w max.) to power a normal headlight bulb ( of about 55-60w) especially as it isn't powering the ignition system.

If the alternator passed the headlight bulb test, below (from the previous alternator test link I posted) then I'd say it's probably the Power Box that's faulty.

How to check an alternator
You could use a headlight bulb. It’s really a go/nogo check in that if the bulb doesn’t light your
alternator is broken! Just disconnect your alternator and connect two wires to a headlight bulb. Start
your bike and see if the bulb lights. Remember that the voltage is unregulated so don’t rev your bike
too high or you might blow your bulb.

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Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Hello,

Well it did pass the light bulb test clearly.

Is it possible to use aftermarket rectifiers or regulators? Do i need both or just another one? I was thinking because i might have some other motorcycle rec/regs or i could buy aftermarket one so i could test it out.

So question is can i replace power box with aftermarket rec/reg?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Yes, many different regulators would work.

Do the + and - output wires from the power box light a headlight bulb?

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

KuusistoNorton said:

Is it possible to use aftermarket rectifiers or regulators? Do i need both or just another one?

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The Power Box is aftermarket, so I suggest you replace it with another similar single-phase regulator/rectifier unit (it doesn't have to be one with lighting delay) or, you could fit a separate rectifier and a Zener.

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problem?

Triton Thrasher said:

Yes, many different regulators would work.

Do the + and - output wires from the power box light a headlight bulb?

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Hello,

Since the power box doesnt have anything to do with the ignition its little bit differend.

2 yellow wires from altenator goes to the power box, and 4 wires come out from the power box.

Red +positive
Black -negative
Red/Black +positive(lightning delay)
Black/yellow -negative(lightning delay)

Red wire is going straight to frame.

Black and black/yellow are "same"/"together" and are connected to the horn and rear light i think(atleast horn and stop light)

Red/black goes straight to ammeter and from ammeter it goes to the main light switch(bakelite, fitted headlamp), and from there 1 wire goes to low/high beam switch and two comes out from it and goes to the main bulb (H4 bulb btw).

Thats pretty much it i think, nothing fancy.

I would rather try out aftermarket rec/reg than order new stator which is much more expensive than aftermarket components.

I know aftermarket ones may not be that good quality, but i would be sure whats broken after all.

Could this rec/reg replace boyer power box completely?

By the way thanks for all the help guys.