Norton 961 at Bonneville

Rich_j · Sep 1, 2010

swooshdave said:
http://www.speedtrialsbybub.com/2010_ev ... s-2010.pdf

Page 25

P = Production Frame
P = Production Engine
PP = Production Pushrod Engine
G = Gas

Or something like that.

Thanks for the link.
Just been reading and PPP and PPG both appear valid classes - Production Pushrod and Pushrod Gasoline. PG seems to allow for tuned engines against the standard PP.
The first P is for a production frame, the wording says "the public must be able to purchase 500 frames through retail dealers", not sure what would happen if you rolled up and try to buy 500 961 frames :?

79x100 · Sep 1, 2010

Rich_j said:
The first P is for a production frame, the wording says "the public must be able to purchase 500 frames through retail dealers", not sure what would happen if you rolled up and try to buy 500 961 frames :?

Well, if 'buying' means 'paying for up front' then I don't think there'd be a problem. Delivery. That's something else entirely.

swooshdave · Sep 1, 2010

79x100 said:
Rich_j said:

The first P is for a production frame, the wording says "the public must be able to purchase 500 frames through retail dealers", not sure what would happen if you rolled up and try to buy 500 961 frames :?

Click to expand...

Well, if 'buying' means 'paying for up front' then I don't think there'd be a problem. Delivery. That's something else entirely.

There aren't any manufacturers that you can walk up to and order 500 frames. Try that at a Honda dealer and see how hard they laugh. That wording has more to do with the capacity to make 500 frames to keep the custom frames out of that class. There's a chance that Norton will end up making 500 961s, which was probably good enough.

lcrken · Sep 1, 2010

Rich_j said:
Thanks for the link.
Just been reading and PPP and PPG both appear valid classes - Production Pushrod and Pushrod Gasoline. PG seems to allow for tuned engines against the standard PP.
The first P is for a production frame, the wording says "the public must be able to purchase 500 frames through retail dealers", not sure what would happen if you rolled up and try to buy 500 961 frames :?

Sort of. There are no PPG classes in SCTA events. The only pushrod production classes are P-PP and P-PPB (factory supercharged pushrod engines, like the Honda CX series). SCTA rules specifically limit Production frame classes to using Production engine classes. AMA (BUB meet) doesn't have the same words in it's rule book. They require Production class frames to have stock airboxes and exhaust systems, and the engine originally delivered with the bike when new, but they don't specifically prohibit other engine classes. The SCTA and AMA rules used to be the same, back in the '70s when AMA stopped sanctioning land speed events. From then to until 2004, when Dennis Manning started the BUB events at Bonneville, all US records on the salt were SCTA records. Dennis didn't get along well with SCTA, so when he started the BUB events, he convinced the AMA to again start sanctioning the events. The first year, the AMA rules read pretty much the same as the SCTA rules, but they have changed since. I've been assuming that the AMA also limited production classes to production engines rules, but that may not be true. I noticed that there are AMA records from the BUB meets in odd classes, like P-AG, and P-AF, so I suppose P-PG is a legitimate class.

Sorry if I confused anyone (including me).

Ken

lcrken · Sep 1, 2010

FWIW, the production-production classes, including P-PP require stock cabs/injector bodies, stock airboxes, and stock exhaust systems, but allow pretty much any internal mods, like porting, big valves, cams, etc. It does require OEM cylinders, cases, and heads. That means Norton could have tuned their engine a bit, if they wanted to.

Ken

Gino Rondelli · Sep 2, 2010

I see the new Norton 961 has just lifted the 1000ppp class from Buell with a speed of 129.191. Well done to the team.
Now there's a topic for all the knockers to get their teeth into

Not that impressive really, a 2010 bike with fuel injection over a straight flat course? I'm sure a well sorted original Commando could whack that?

Perhaps instead of playing around they should concentrate on getting bikes out to their long waiting customers who have laid a deposit down?

Just back from a meeting in Belgium (thought I'd have seen you there 79x100) and still no euro homologated bikes available I believe?

On the plus side I suppose they are uot there flying the flag and getting some good PR (which is what its all about , that and a lads holiday) They need to walk the walk before they talk the talk! :roll:

grandpaul · Sep 2, 2010

Gino Rondelli said:
I see the new Norton 961 has just lifted the 1000ppp class from Buell with a speed of 129.191. Well done to the team.
Now there's a topic for all the knockers to get their teeth into

Click to expand...

Not that impressive really, a 2010 bike with fuel injection over a straight flat course? I'm sure a well sorted original Commando could whack that?

While you might be inclined to THINK that, it's apparent from the record book that it simply isn't the case.

People have been running "old" Nortons on the salt every year between the time the previous record was set, and this year...

swooshdave · Sep 2, 2010

Gino Rondelli said:
I see the new Norton 961 has just lifted the 1000ppp class from Buell with a speed of 129.191. Well done to the team.
Now there's a topic for all the knockers to get their teeth into

Click to expand...

Not that impressive really, a 2010 bike with fuel injection over a straight flat course? I'm sure a well sorted original Commando could whack that?

I suggest you try then. Let's see how you do at that elevation and on the salt. Good luck. :roll:

http://www.saltflats.com/traction.html

Over the years, I have heard the traction qualities of the salt variously described as: “about like pavement”, “like wet pavement”, “just like ice”, and pretty much everything in between those extremes. Yet it seems to me that none of those describe it well. I personally think it is much like a good well groomed, hard packed dirt track, or maybe a well packed smooth gravel road. Not like freshly graded loose gravel or dirt, but one that has been packed smooth and hard, maybe wetted and dried a few times. Like your local dirt racing oval, that hard packed surface that gets shiny, and streaked black with rubber in the racing groove. It is pretty good traction, but not like pavement.

We were coming back from Vegas (a few years ago) and just happened to stop by Bonneville. And they just happened to be racing that day. So we stopped for a bit.

grandpaul · Sep 2, 2010

I am here to testify of the unbelievable slipperiness of the salt.

I was cruising through the pits (2008) at about 10 MPH when some idiot pulled right out into the lane from between two parked trucks without so much as a glance to either side.

I started to THINK about gently touching the brakes and...

Never had a chance.

Here's Sir Alan and I chatting after they borrowed my roller starter for the SBT Thruxton (photo by Phil "I shoot from the hip" Hawkenz)-

Hawk's re-creation of my record setting run-