Norman White restoration manual......

CanukNortonNut · Dec 31, 2020

Some of the problems for the swingarm bore alignment are from the first generation SA. In 73 they introduced gussets and 75 the final upgrade.

Fast Eddie · Dec 31, 2020

Onder said:
FE: what was your choice of lube? If you look at the ARP lube chart it doesnt talk about change in torque but rather how well each lube allows repeatability. ARP sells some poop which of course is claimed to be the best which it very well may be.
I have it and would use it if I could just find out what values I should use.
Any help here?

Well, like I said, I’ve pretty much always lubed threads, so don’t have any specific lube I’ve always used. I used copper grease for a long time, I have some ARP lube now. But my general preference these days is silicone grease.

I kinda believe that for our application on these old clunkers, super duper ARP stuff ain’t really necessary. I’m mainly interested in preventing galling and binding thus making fasteners easy to re-torque and preventing threads from damage etc.

Onder · Jan 1, 2021

...and your torque value reduction is.....?

Fast Eddie · Jan 1, 2021

Onder said:
...and your torque value reduction is.....?

None. Zero. Zilch.

That’s why I asked back in post #78, has anyone ever had any actual problem using stock torque figures with lubed threads on a Norton?

I‘ve always used stock figures (or higher) and lubed threads on Triumohs, Norton’s, etc and never had an issue.

I’m therefore thinking this is a none issue in practical terms?

Onder · Jan 1, 2021

Triumph gives a bolt stretch number in their factory book. Does Norton?

Fast Eddie · Jan 1, 2021

Personally, I’ve only ever used torque wrench figures, never stretch.

Onder · Jan 1, 2021

As do I, just wondering if there was a figure as stretch is supposed to be the last word.

kommando · Jan 1, 2021

I will compare bolts later, as long as the are same length and diameter then stretch figure can carry across, hopefully the same hi tensile steel has been used. Other option is to assemble one bolt/nut dry and torqued correctly and measure the stretch. Undo and discard the used nut and then do the 4 bolts with 4 fresh nuts to the measured stretch with whatever lube locking compound is your preference.

The stretch method is the definitive method as its the way you determine the torque needed to get the calculated stretch, which is based on the cross sectional area, the tensile strength and the plastic deformation figure. You must ensure you do not breach the plastic deformation figure but apply enough stretch to stop the nut undoing.

kommando · Jan 1, 2021

Norton big end bolt 3/8" dia, 63mm long, T120 big end 5/16" diameter 65mm long. So 5 thou does not carry across.

Fast Eddie · Jan 1, 2021

Rocket Richard said:
Hi got my manual couple of days ago. Purchased from Andover Norton. Not cheap! I was a tad surprised to see how strongly AN are pushed by the Author. It almost feels like I am sponsoring ANs advertising while still paying top dollar. I don’t like it when the author advises you not to believe a word the internet says, if you apply that rule a lot of people would not buy the book which is endorsed on the internet. I will read on and try harder to see its merits.

I’d say read on and keep it in context.

Last time I had work done by Norm he was raging about some crap, over hard isolstics he‘d recently removed, and then about some very poor quality stainless head bolts, and then about something else, etc.

Point is, when you’ve been in the game as long as he has, he gets tired of the amount of crap he sees out there. He likes AN cos they put effort into honouring the original spec, even down to hardness rating of isolastics etc. At least that’s what he told me back then.

And regarding crap written on the internet, he’s only referring to the 99% that actually is crap. I’m sure he’s fine with the 1% of good stuff !!

Matchless · Jan 1, 2021

kommando said:
Norton big end bolt 3/8" dia, 63mm long, T120 big end 5/16" diameter 65mm long. So 5 thou does not carry across.

I don't think you would be far out using .005", as Carrillo recommend that for the 3/8"ARP bolts. It would certainly be more accurate than using a clapped out torque wrench.

gortnipper · Jan 1, 2021

Fast Eddie said:
None. Zero. Zilch.

That’s why I asked back in post #78, has anyone ever had any actual problem using stock torque figures with lubed threads on a Norton?

I‘ve always used stock figures (or higher) and lubed threads on Triumohs, Norton’s, etc and never had an issue.

I’m therefore thinking this is a none issue in practical terms?

From the CRC copper anti-seize TDS:

Torque Coefficicent (k) on Steel Nuts &
Bolts - 0.10

Fast Eddie · Jan 2, 2021

Maybe it’s all my Triumph riding years, but the idea of tightening lubed bolts less just creates mental images of leaving a trails of components behind me on the road!

Like I posted earlier, personally I have never lowered torques due to using lube. So, the keen amongst you will yell that I’ve been hideously over torquing things.

Hence my question: has anyone ever experienced an actual problem from using stock torque settings on lubed threads?

gortnipper · Jan 2, 2021

Better to be lucky than good, right?

SteveBorland · Jan 2, 2021

Getting back to the original subject, I'm very happy with the book so far, but it's an odd combination of a workshop manual and a restoration guide.
All my shop manuals hav the proverbial greasy thumbprints (at least I can be certain it's my book!), but Norman's book is rather too well made (and expensive!!) for me to consider using it in the workshop. While the cunning plan may be to get everyone to buy 2 copies (Norman's secret retirement plot?) I will content myself with hand written notes plus the odd photo on my phone.

Lots of good tips though - about 30 seconds after opening it I thought to myself - that's a neat work stand he has there.....

gortnipper · Jan 2, 2021

SteveBorland said:
Getting back to the original subject, I'm very happy with the book so far, but it's an odd combination of a workshop manual and a restoration guide.
All my shop manuals hav the proverbial greasy thumbprints (at least I can be certain it's my book!), but Norman's book is rather too well made (and expensive!!) for me to consider using it in the workshop. While the cunning plan may be to get everyone to buy 2 copies (Norman's secret retirement plot?) I will content myself with hand written notes plus the odd photo on my phone.

Lots of good tips though - about 30 seconds after opening it I thought to myself - that's a neat work stand he has there.....

I have two factory shop manuals, a greasy one in the garage and a clean one in the house.

Deets55 · Jan 2, 2021

I have a lightly soiled shop manual I keep in the house for reference, and print pages out of a digital one I have on my laptop for the garage. The garage one is about 60% complete.

worntorn · Jan 5, 2021

On page 92 Norman states
" The original balance factor was set at 52% dry; that is with the sludge trap empty of oil"
I believe this information is incorrect.
If it is correct, the crank I just had dynamically balanced is a mile off. It was even further off with the factory balance.
The factory balance on that crank was at 54% wet using Jim Schmidt's number of 50 grams for oil. The dry balance number from the factory balance when using the weights of all the stock 850 items, which we weighed was about 63% .
We lowered the bf by a very small amount so it is now at 52% wet which is equal to 61% dry. again using 50 grams as oil weight.

A 52% dry balance factor as suggested by Norman is equivalent to roughly 46% wet.

Glen

savingclassicmotorcycles · Jan 5, 2021

I just finished reading my copy today got to be said it's by far one of the best manuals/guides I've ever read really appreciated the great printing to an the good paper it was printed on always makes a big difference to the final printed product an the enjoyment (time served ex litho printer on state of the art heidelbergs)

The information is really brilliant feel like I've learnt loads, got some graphogen on the way to an I must say its gone to the top of my fav bikes books now

gonna re read it a few more times for sure.

jan nelder · Jan 9, 2021

norton_rider said:
I just finished reading my copy today got to be said it's by far one of the best manuals/guides I've ever read really appreciated the great printing to an the good paper it was printed on always makes a big difference to the final printed product an the enjoyment (time served ex litho printer on state of the art heidelbergs)

The information is really brilliant feel like I've learnt loads, got some graphogen on the way to an I must say its gone to the top of my fav bikes books now gonna re read it a few more times for sure.

I ordered direct from the publisher this week and it arrived within 3 days, having asked by email first that they had some stock. £32 plus £3.99 p and p. All good!

Norman White restoration manual......

Similar threads