New re-map!

BritTwit

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Precisionbob,

Strange, but your issues sound exactly like mine with full SBN exhaust, and map #77. Also, they disappear after full warmup. I’m hoping my remap to #90 will bring an improvement to cold idle and cold running between 3200-4000 RPM.
Don't know where this will all end. Maybe with map #1090 in 2050. :lol:
Just kidding.

You know this could become a cottage industry. Coming out with a new, slightly better 961 map every spring. Little more fuel here, little more fuel there, a few more degrees ignition advance at 3000 RPM, etc..
It’s something to consider for the industrious among us.
 
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Fred,

My starting procedure is inconsistent. Sometimes I just hit the starting button, no throttle, it doesn't rev at all. Just a low 1k rpm slow thump. I'll walk away and come back, its still running. Other times I try that, it'll run for 15 seconds and die. So then I give it two small twists, start, hold it at 2k for 10-15 secs. and it stats. Then...sometimes....sigh..I'm getting the backfire, have to blow it out with a few higher revs because it sounds like its running on one cylinder until it catches. Not a long process, but just not consistent. The bike runs great overall. It cools down quickly though. More than a 15 minute break, I have to rev it up upon restarting. That's ok. The crowd loves the sound anyway. Just my lame excuse for letting them hear it. My last day of work is this Friday, and then I'm retired. Got all the time in the world to break balls. I'll wait for your review of the remap. Pretty sure we have the same pipes. How about blowing some minds at OBI together on a Sunday morning? I'm sure they've never seen 2 together. 8)
 

BritTwit

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Curtis,

So you’ll be a free man after Friday. That’s great news. Congrats! I’m a short timer too. Hoping for the end of this year, or early next year.

I noticed with the 77 map, and a cold engine, if I don’t catch the revs at 2000 right after the startup the bike will die. If I do this a few times I can smell raw gas in the mufflers. Then the next time I try to start, it will backfire. I’m getting pretty good at the drill now, and I can usually catch the motor on the first start and keep it from dying with the throttle, maintaining the rev about 2000 rpm for 30-40 seconds. That’s good enough to get a lumpy idle. I also have noticed that engine does cool down quickly. I agree 15-30 minutes after shutdown, you’re back to the cold starting technique all over again. My belief is that the startup parameters in the ECU are designed to provide a rich mixture to get the bike initially running, then the ECU chops the fuel down to better meet clean air regulations. Problem is the fuel pressure is chopped too much for the cold engine to idle properly.

I was talking to a few buddies about taking a ride to OBI on Sunday. The weather looks perfect. Let’s meet up and ride out on Sunday.
Maybe we'll run into Yossi from GC with is Ferrari 433. :lol:
 
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I have 77 map and my bike is usually 1st or second off the button, usually second time. And just like mentioned, sometimes 1 in every twenty starts sounds like it's on one cylinder and most times idles itself at 1,800 for about 20 seconds then goes to 1,200 smooth as can be. I have more of a problem if the bike has sat for 8-10 hrs in the sun then start it. It's like the sensors are confused. Although it seems frustrating, don't touch the throttle and let it be. And if it's taking 3-4 times like this, then something is wrong or the set screw is in the wrong position or a TPI is faulty.

As of lately I use my Norton dust cover so the UV rays don't destroy it sitting in a parking lot all day. It's does seem to help with the sensor confusion.
 

BritTwit

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Thanks Richard.

BPHORSEGUY also suggested adjusting the set screw. I'll try that this weekend to see if it helps with the startup/cold idle issue.
I'm also seriously considering swapping the clipons on my CR for low bars. I have to swap out the upper triple tree too.
You have done this already, haven't you?
Will the standard CR/clipon hydraulic lines stretch for handlebar mounting?
 
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My dad ordered the CLIP-ON kit for his SE (standard bars on SE). This kit came with shorter lines and a different angle bracket for the Hydraulic reservoirs. The difference in length was very little and I'm very confident the shorter lines would work but am not 100% sure as we kept the longer lines for both bars and never used the supplied shorter lines. -- Hope this helps.

I should borrow his clip-ons for the rest of the year as his bike is out of service until spring...... hmmmmm.....
 
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Hello Bob , Do you mean you have the #0091 map or not ? My map is the # 65000091 R1 TUNE , says so on the dyno report . Lets not use 090 or 091 interchangeably , this may not be the same map as mine .
 
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Tony, We are not using 90 & 91 interchangeably at all!!!.
90 is for the long SBN mufflers without cats like BritTwit's bike and 91 is for the same but with cats as for my bike!

I believe if you check out posts we are 100% consistent. Sorry for any confusion.
 
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OK , Then for the last time I have Motads short/loud and no CATs . I have the # 65000091 R1 TUNE .... and no complaints.
 
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OK , Then for the last time I have Motads short/loud and no CATs . I have the # 65000091 R1 TUNE .... and no complaints.
 
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TonyA said:
OK , Then for the last time I have Motads short/loud and no CATs . I have the # 65000091 R1 TUNE .... and no complaints.
No complaints is Music to my ears. I believe you have the same map as I just installed and I to am happy... for now!
 

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G81 Can Cycle said:
BritTwit said:
Britfan60 said:
BP. Is that your first remap? I'm on #77 and quite happy with it except for the 4200 rattle. Not sure if that's a mapping problem though. Did you have 77 first and are that much happier now? Should I go for it? It's really easy for me to ride there. 15 - minutes in traffic. I do some pretty spirited riding. Every little bit may help.
Curtis,
I’m going to GC on Friday to have my 961 remapped with #90 map (no cats, long loud cans). I currently have map #77. While this map is a definite improvement over the stock map, I still have two niggling problems that I hope map #90 will resolve, or at least lessen.

My current starting procedure is to not apply any throttle initially, simply press the starter button. This always results in the motor starting right up, and revving to about 2500 RPM. This inspires real confidence. Then it immediately dies. My resolve is to quickly apply some throttle as soon at the engine comes to life, and try to catch the revs before they fall south of 2000 rpm. Then continue to apply some throttle for 30-40 seconds. Then the engine will usually settle down to a lumpy idle, usually.

Cold running (riding before engine has reached it operating temp) has its issues as well. Before the engine is warmed up, I have what can only be described as a reluctance to rev that feels almost like surging from 3200-4000 RPM. It lasts for about 4-5 minutes of riding. Once the engine is properly warmed up, it runs like a raped ape! Great throttle response throughout the entire rpm range.

I have checked the O2 sensors in the header pipes, and the header flanges to make sure there are no leaks. After the remap I think I will replace the spark plugs with Iridium plugs to see if they will have an additional positive effect.
BritTwit

Both of my 961's have the exact same starting regime as yours. Will not start and idle unless I add throttle, then idle is fine. I also get the hesitant acceleration until the bike is fully warmed up (normally about 1/2 to 1 mile down the road) I write it off as being a cold blooded beast.

As far as you upgrading from remap 77 to 90, please let me know how that goes. I am running 77 on both of my bikes (2014 has SB Long DT's without cats, and 2015 has short Motads without cats) If there is significant improvement, I will see if GC can remap my ECU's using a new stock bike, if they have one on the floor

I am also going to call South Bay this week and see if Capri is willing to work with me on a map for race performance application. It is still my goal to race the 2015 961 in AHRMA next year. We have put together a Norton Race team here in Jacksonville. One guy runs a 1938 and 1947 Manx, another guy runs 1971 and 1974 Commando, and I will be running the 961. N Cubed (N to the 3rd power) Racing. Stands for the 3 distinct era's of Nortons on the team, and actually stands for Nearly Normal Norton Racing LOL
Good on yer for putting a 961 on the track sir! Can you tell us a little about the class you'll be running in? Will it be a competitive campaign or 'just for the hell of it'?

And what can / will you do to the engine?

Maybe you can twist Comnoz arm, get him to take a look see...?
 

G81 Can Cycle

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Eddie

I don't think it will be considered a serious campaign. I plan to race the 961 pretty much stock, maybe a remap and a couple of other changes (maybe tires and tuning of the Ohlins). We do not have a AHRMA decision on what class the 961 will race in, but the talk seems to be running in the Thruxton class. I think this would be a good idea. The Thruxton class is modern bikes of approximately the same air cooled, push rod motors, and displacement as the 961. I am sure there will be some resistance to this from the guys campaigning the Thruxtons.

I need to talk to Richard 7, I think he said he has an extra engine for a 961. If he does maybe we can get it to Comnoz (if he is agreeable) for some of his magic. As I said earlier, I also want to talk to Matt Capri at South Bay and see if he wants to help with the endeavor.

I am looking forward to a race trailer that will unload 70 years of Nortons onto the track. I think it will be a great deal of fun. The other riders that are part of this team are all great people and pleasure to be around. So I think the 2016 season will be quite fun for N Cubed LOL
 

Fast Eddie

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G81 Can Cycle said:
Eddie

I don't think it will be considered a serious campaign. I plan to race the 961 pretty much stock, maybe a remap and a couple of other changes (maybe tires and tuning of the Ohlins). We do not have a AHRMA decision on what class the 961 will race in, but the talk seems to be running in the Thruxton class. I think this would be a good idea. The Thruxton class is modern bikes of approximately the same air cooled, push rod motors, and displacement as the 961. I am sure there will be some resistance to this from the guys campaigning the Thruxtons.

I need to talk to Richard 7, I think he said he has an extra engine for a 961. If he does maybe we can get it to Comnoz (if he is agreeable) for some of his magic. As I said earlier, I also want to talk to Matt Capri at South Bay and see if he wants to help with the endeavor.

I am looking forward to a race trailer that will unload 70 years of Nortons onto the track. I think it will be a great deal of fun. The other riders that are part of this team are all great people and pleasure to be around. So I think the 2016 season will be quite fun for N Cubed LOL
Well, win or lose, you're gonna have a ball! Sounds like you have a great 'team'. I'm sure the race trailer will have space for the BBQ and a fridge for the beers. I'm quite envious!

Do keep us posted.
 
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I have seen 1 or 2 reports of 961's self revving after a hard ride, on a hot day at a stoplight. Since it hit 92F today I had the perfect excuse to go for a ride in the name of "testing" the new map.

I hit one of my favorite sections of twisties at 6000-8000 RPM with as many applications of full throttle as possibe and 65-80 mph. After a few minutes of this I pulled over for 30-45 seconds to simulate a stoplight. I repeated this several times them promptly left the area before the cops showed up!

The bike did idle 100-200 RPM higher then normal but displayed no "self revving" or 2000 RPM idling at any time ! I have seen several air-oil cooled motors that idle higher when hot, this may be a good thing as it keeps oil pressure up!

After about 3 minutes of normal riding the idle returned back to 1200-1250 RPM.
 
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Even my 79 Bonnie idles higher after a hard right in the heat, and of course, there is no ECU.
 
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I removed my cats yesterday. Map 91 really works well without the cats! There is conflicting tech info between SBN and Norton concerning which map is best for each setup! TonyA l can see why you have no complaints, my bike is ripping!
 
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Good ! You also said you have installed a tranny vent ? But with no hose attached like mine. Can you send along a picture sometime ? If you guys want to see mine installed on the bike let me know.
 
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Hello BPHorseguy , Did you get the cat delete X-pipe from SBN ? Also , did they change the pipe angle for the chain clearance and is there now a hanger bracket on the X-pipe ? Thanks !
 

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