New Product for Tri-Spark users

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The heat is generated by the engine , not by the points cover .
This heat is transported to other parts , oil and air in 3 possible ways : conduction , convection or radiation .
(= basic thermodynamics )
Insulating individual parts will only lead to increased temperature of the non insulated parts .
In this case : the Trispark unit .
 
I would think your material behind the unit and also a way of getting air inside the points area would be the best way. You could drill holes on both the leading edge and trailing side of the points cover and then use some type of filter media to keep dirt out, Although water would still be a problem. I run the Tri-Spark on both bikes and they are without a doubt the best modification I have made to my Norton's.
 
i think it obviously requires its own oil tank and feed lines to keep it cool- that way it can leak too, and jim can mention how it needs a PCV valve (haha) :mrgreen:
 
ludwig said:
The heat is generated by the engine , not by the points cover .
Insulating individual parts will only lead to increased temperature of the non insulated parts
Click to expand...


However, the engine and timing cover are far larger lumps of metal in proportion to the points cover, so I can't see that thermally isolating the cover from conducted engine heat would be likely to cause any measurable increase in temperature around the Tri-Spark unit, but the "points" cover may run cooler which would place a "cold wall" on one side of the "points" cavity and could help to lower its temperature?
I think Hortons Norton's idea of ventilating the cover is probably the better one, and presumably the Tri-Spark unit is watertight, so as long as the wiring connectors were also wateright there shouldn't be a problem if any moisture did get into the cavity?
 
L.A.B. said:
.. I can't see that thermally isolating the cover from conducted engine heat would be likely to cause any measurable increase in temperature around the Tri-Spark unit,...
Click to expand...
The temp increase would indeed be minimal ..
If you want the cover to help cooling the cavity you could use a finned cover like suggested and paint the inside dull black so that it would absorb more radiated heat ;.. all this is pretty theoretical . By far the best solution ( if one is needed ) would be ventilation .
 
L.A.B. said:
norbsa48503 said:
The enemy of good enough is better. You always have the choice of doing nothing more than you have done. I never foresaw that a few people could be so vocal about failures that have not occurred with this product. I am amassed at how good these units work on our bikes I think they speak volumes on their own behalf if you just witness one going on to a bike that had an older system in it. Any tuner will tell you it is night and day difference. Much work was put into the product these things do not do themselves.
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I bought the Classic Twin kit on the strength of what Steve Kelly said here two years ago, as he obviously had a lot of faith in his product, and mine has performed perfectly since then, so no grumbles from me, and from reading all the chat about electronic ignitions for our bikes, both here and on other forums since that time, I can only deduce that the Classic Twin appears to be the least problematic of them all, whether that's actually due to the quality and design of the Classic Twin unit or because the very simple wiring installation reduces the number of potentially bad electrical connections the "fitter" can make, I don't know, but I would definitely recommend the Classic Twin kit to anybody thinking of buying one. As for ultimate reliability and longevity, I suppose only time will tell?
Click to expand...

On my Commando time has sadly told and my Boyer is back on.
 
Hortons Norton said:
I run the Tri-Spark on both bikes and they are without a doubt the best modification I have made to my Norton's.
Click to expand...

I do agree with Ludwig, isolating the Tri-Spark unit from its heatsource by putting a heat isolating gasket between the Tri-Spark unit and the timingcover will keep the unit far more cooler then putting a gasket between the timingcover and the pointcover. Infact a gasket between the T-cover and the P-cover will be contra productive as far as heat reducing to the TS-unit concerns.

Hortons Norton you mentioned putting the Tri-Spark on your bikes was "without a doubt the best modification you made to your Nortons". I run points (fine, but requires some maintenance), Lucas Rita (fine, but rather large unit and ugli pointcover), Phiranha (fine, but very delicate 'prone to break' wires) and for the last 12 years Boyer (fine, but fragile wirespot on the baseplate, which can be cured by wrapping the wires in heatresistant foam). Could you tell what extra this Tri-Spark gives you?
 
I am also interested in finding out what a Trispark gives you extra than a Boyer.
Years ago I used to run my BSA A10's & the such like on full advance all the time, by welding up the advance/retard units, because they were usually clapped out. All these bikes ran fine. I reckon Commandos could be ran this way. The only problem was kickback, but I was well used to it. When started, you couldn't tell the difference.
I feel that points are perfectly all right. Electronic Ignition less maintanence. I do feel that Electronic ign. retards the timing too much in the mid range, losing power to points.
This is written from decades of experience, not bench testing.
 
I had a pre-unit Tiger 100 in the early sixties with manual advance/retard and that would kick back violently when starting if I forgot to retard it, I certainly wouldn't want to try and start my 850 on full advance Flo!
Dave.
 
nortonspeed said:
Infact a gasket between the T-cover and the P-cover will be contra productive as far as heat reducing to the TS-unit concerns.
Click to expand...

Well, I really don't see that such a small item would be capable of wicking any significant amount of heat away from the much larger timing cover?



Flo said:
I am also interested in finding out what a Trispark gives you extra than a Boyer.
Click to expand...

=
It's capable of functioning down to a lower voltage than a (MkIII) Boyer, it has an anti-kickback feature built-in, better advance curve than a Boyer, and has idle sabilisation, and I can tell you it produces a much better spark than a Boyer.
 
With the covers being aluminium and considerable oil sloshing about in that direct area, I would say that overheating would not be such an issue in that area. What are the temperature readings and what are the limits of the TriSpark unit?
 
norbsa48503 said:
New Product for Tri-Spark users
Many Norton owners have started using Steve Kelly's Tri-Spark ignition system. They do seem to run our bikes well. With the brain box right in the point’s chamber, engine heat, although allowed for in the design, could be reduced to some degree with the use of a heat insulating gasket which would keep the points cover cooler than normal. I have made such a gasket and will sell it for 6.00 in the lower 48 for use with his systems. It is made of a product used just for this purpose - 1/32” thick and black in color. These gaskets are Laser cut because of the toughness and hardness of the material.
It’s on my site the last product in the store section. Or just PM me on the board or my email if your already a customer. And yes, I have Steve's permission to use his product name in the text for this product. We will do some testing with an inferred gun as soon as the rain goes away using the stock gasket and then a new gasket on a Commando. Meanwhile I see no harm in using one and many of my clients have asked for this. Thanks for your read over. Greg
Click to expand...

I have a question. Before marketing this product I would have thought that you would have actually tested it first. Even a hand test. I'm wondering who these clients of yours who thought this would be a good idea. Maybe they know more than we do?
 
With the covers being aluminium and considerable oil sloshing about in that direct area
--------------------------
If you have oil sloshing around whithin the points cover you do have problems!
Dave.
 
Well Flo, The first thing I noticed was it has never kicked back, And on the 75 that was an important thing as it is hard on the sprag parts when that happens. On the 72 it was much better than the Micro Digital Boyer. Lower idle, better power, Never stalls. I guess if you have never had both on your bike it will be hard to explain. I also had a Sparx on the 75 that went kaput, Turned out to be too much solder on the back of the pickup plate and shorted out after a short time. I'm not selling these things so I won't try to talk anyone into it but it is sure better than any of the above systems, That's for sure. I have had bikes in the past that had points and they work fine when maintained I just wanted to move into the 21st century, Oh I also run a single carb on both bikes. LOL. :lol:
 
daveparry said:
With the covers being aluminium and considerable oil sloshing about in that direct area
--------------------------
If you have oil sloshing around whithin the points cover you do have problems!
Dave.
Click to expand...
Not within the points cover but the entire body of aluminium the encapsulates the points cavity including the cover is effected by the cooling effect of the oil behind it. It is said that the oil level within the timing cover is substantion like in up to the timing chain. Due to the thermal effect of aluminium this would suggest that the area of the point cavity will not get much hotter than the oil.
 
pvisseriii said:
daveparry said:
With the covers being aluminium and considerable oil sloshing about in that direct area
--------------------------
If you have oil sloshing around whithin the points cover you do have problems!
Dave.
Click to expand...
Not within the points cover but the entire body of aluminium the encapsulates the points cavity including the cover is effected by the cooling effect of the oil behind it. It is said that the oil level within the timing cover is substantion like in up to the timing chain. Due to the thermal effect of aluminium this would suggest that the area of the point cavity will not get much hotter than the oil.
Click to expand...

Jim did some testing with a clear timing cover or something. I don't think there is as much oil in the timing chest as we think, if I recall. I think the heat will be transferred from the barrels down to the crankcase to the timing cover...

What is the actual temperature of the timing cover for a well warmed up bike?
 
L.A.B. said:
Well, I really don't see that such a small item would be capable of wicking any significant amount of heat away from the much larger timing cover?

It's capable of functioning down to a lower voltage than a (MkIII) Boyer, it has an anti-kickback feature built-in, better advance curve than a Boyer, and has idle sabilisation, and I can tell you it produces a much better spark than a Boyer.
Click to expand...

Thanks L.A.B. for your explanation. But (apart from the kickback) and like the above mentioned "significant amount of heat" is it noticeable :?:
 
nortonspeed said:
Thanks L.A.B. for your explanation. But (apart from the kickback) and like the above mentioned "significant amount of heat" is it noticeable
Click to expand...

The Tri-Spark was noticeable improvement over the Boyer (MkIII) it replaced, not that the Boyer was a bad one, and it never gave me any kickback problems whatsoever.
One thing I noticed about every bike I've ridden that's had a MkIII Boyer on it, is that at idle, it would often feel as if the engine wasn't far off stalling. The Tri-Spark on the other hand feels much stronger (for want of a better word) at idle, and doesn't give the impression that the engine is going to die on you if you were to let go of the throttle at the wrong moment.

To date, I have replaced two Boyers and a RITA with Tri-Sparks (one a Classic Twin and two sequential "black box" types) and I'd consider each one to be an improvement over the system it replaced, but then considering the price of a Tri-Spark when compared to the other systems I suppose the Tri-Spark really should be noticeably better?
 
ludwig said:
plj850 said:
L.A.B. said:
...As for ultimate reliability and longevity, I suppose only time will tell?
Click to expand...

On my Commando time has sadly told and my Boyer is back on.
Click to expand...

Do you mean that you fried the Trispark ?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by fried? It stopped working if thats what you mean? However I did have my old Boyer MKII strapped into the battery area and put it on to get home. Waiting for Tri-Spark to look at it (Its been sent to Australia).Does that answer the question... I also have a deep finned contact breaker cover fitted.
 
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