Let's not say SG Nortons

worntorn said:
www.google.com

Norton Motorcycles Also Owes UK Taxpayers Millions Of Pounds

Calls for an official investigation into government funding of Norton Motorcycles, as well as customer allegations of stripped bikes arise.
www.google.com www.google.com
Click to expand...
Lol I dont need a link, ta.
They were some of the best company assets that the bank owned. The V550 was bought for £80k, down as being owned by Norton....yet worth nearer to £180k at the time of folding. So no, he didn't buy himself Astons and Range Rovers. The SVR was a rental to my knowledge too.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Lol I dont need a link, ta.
They were some of the best company assets that the bank owned. The V550 was bought for £80k, down as being owned by Norton....yet worth nearer to £180k at the time of folding. So no, he didn't buy himself Astons and Range Rovers. The SVR was a rental to my knowledge too.
Click to expand...
Seem to remember seeing pictures of SG driving a Ford Focus after the bankruptcy. A pretty old one at that!
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Lol I dont need a link, ta.
They were some of the best company assets that the bank owned. The V550 was bought for £80k, down as being owned by Norton....yet worth nearer to £180k at the time of folding. So no, he didn't buy himself Astons and Range Rovers. The SVR was a rental to my knowledge too.
Click to expand...

Who were the Astons and Range Rovers for if not SG?
The Pensioners when coming to visit their missing funds?

Glen
 
BikerBore said:
I see many references to 'Garner/SG Nortons' and I feel it reflects negatively on what is for many an excellent bike! I'd like to propose that they are known as 'Donington Nortons' going forward? I feel if owners start referring to their bikes as such, with time it will be what they're known as.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That's like the Harley -Davidson naming. The AMF years, Rushmore, Aermacchis under the Harley-Davidson name etc

Everyone just calls it a Harley.


It's a Pre-Solihull 961 manufacture, is what it really is. Maybe they will have a different vin number configuration that we can use later on since they are "new" bikes.

I still think the bikes we are seeing are the 40 stacked up, not production.


​

 
worntorn said:
Who were the Astons and Range Rovers for if not SG?
The Pensioners when coming to visit their missing funds?

Glen
Click to expand...
He obviously bought them to use himself...well...tbh I did more miles in them than him one year...but, they weren't bought in his name. If you had a business and could buy (on finance) a £180k asset for that business for £80k, you would.....stupid not to. Its all a lifestyle image that Norton was advertising and people were buying into. Same goes for the hotel and the Hall, and the Norton pram/push chair business etc....all assets. Without those, along with all the other assets, Norton wouldn't have had the various bank loans alongside the grants etc to keep it afloat for as long as it did.
The pension scheme was obviously a big fuck up....and totally inexcusable, no denying that one. Had everything been on target with the new model range etc etc, then those ten year, high risk high return pension schemes would have been repaid, and as someone mentioned previously, no one would have been the wiser. Its not new in business, Ive worked for other companies that have done the same....they just managed to sell off enough assets to pay it all back before it became public knowledge. Not saying its right, just saying its rife.

In my opinon one of the biggest failings for the company was paying low wages. This resulted in a young design team, although they may have tried their best with the tools provided, still had little real world experience. And also the Production staff....where the staff turn around was crazy, to the point that one young lad would be teaching the new young lad based on the chinese whispers style training that he would have received a month or two before. This meant product knowledge suffered....and procedures were easily deviated from.
Paying better wages would have most probably resulted in more senior design engineers, and staff that hung around long enough to learn and build the bikes correctly. There was a whole plethora of fund draining problems, but imo those were two that really needed addressing for the business to succeed. But then again, I know sod all about business, I'm just a mechanic.

Actual company cars that I knew of...
A shagged out Range Rover Sport, used for going through the woods and around grounds, and probably worth around £2k.
A Range Rover Evoque, think that was around £8k....it was bought as a cheap crashed repaired car. The Range Rover SVR was leased. The Jag, Insignia and an old Focus were staff cars from the firework business.
Aston Martins were four of....a V550, which I had a soft spot for....the DBS, and two old Vanquish's.
Personal experiences of Stuart and Skinner, they were both very straight with me, and never pissed me off. I got to do some mega cool stuff and meet some mega cool people along the way. Not everyone had a good ride with it though, if you didnt stand out as being extra useful (I could repair the cars, that was my meal ticket I think) then you didnt get to do much beyond your job title. Many went to Norton expecting more, when in reality for the Production staff it was often weeks of being stood around bored, waiting for parts. No one seemed to have the gumption to actually go and ask for something to do though....instead they'd just pretend to be busy when ever SG or SS walked by. I hate clock watching my life away, so I use to go to other departments away from Engine Build, and ask if they needed a hand with anything. Did quite a bit of 961 frame prep prior to powdercoating, as it was a horrible job that no one wanted to do....made my day productive though.
I had no interest in staying with TVS, as working in a factory without windows sounds like hell to me.....and tbh I reckon HR would also see me as a project to work on. So as soon as they announced moving it all to Solihull, I quit and went back to the motortrade. It was some of the 961 owners and the NOC that wouldnt let me turn my back on the 961's though lol
But anyone who thinks it was a scam is a bit out of touch with the modern world. Nowadays, people can scam serious money from behind a computer screen in a weekend....not a ten year period with your face everywhere. SG was a bloody good salesman, no one can deny that.....he knew how to sell his product to the point that the government were desperate to buy into it. IMO everything was done for Norton, making Norton successful was always going to be the primary goal.....in knowing that Norton being successful would open other doors in life and living. This is the exact same reason that large Indian firms love to buy premium luxury brands....its a life style. People say the owner of TVS in a restaurant, and not many people pay attention.....say the owner of Norton Motorcycles, and people want that person on their table.
 
Last edited:
One daft thing is, I know a few people, very experienced automotive industry people, who are also bike nuts, who offered their services FOR FREE to Norton to help implement basic operational management practices like standardised work, job instruction training, systematic problem solving, supply chain management, etc, etc. This is stuff that is well proven and companies pay big bucks for… all offered for free… and all rejected !
I’ll never get my head around that.
 
Fast Eddie said:
One daft thing is, I know a few people, very experienced automotive industry people, who are also bike nuts, who offered their services FOR FREE to Norton to help implement basic operational management practices like standardised work, job instruction training, systematic problem solving, supply chain management, etc, etc. This is stuff that is well proven and companies pay big bucks for… all offered for free… and all rejected !
I’ll never get my head around that.
Click to expand...
Ego - “ I don’t need your help “…
 
Stu Bodycote said:
He obviously bought them to use himself...well...tbh I did more miles in them than him one year...but, they weren't bought in his name. If you had a business and could buy (on finance) a £180k asset for that business for £80k, you would.....stupid not to. Its all a lifestyle image that Norton was advertising and people were buying into. Same goes for the hotel and the Hall, and the Norton pram/push chair business etc....all assets. Without those, along with all the other assets, Norton wouldn't have had the various bank loans alongside the grants etc to keep it afloat for as long as it did.
The pension scheme was obviously a big fuck up....and totally inexcusable, no denying that one. Had everything been on target with the new model range etc etc, then those ten year, high risk high return pension schemes would have been repaid, and as someone mentioned previously, no one would have been the wiser. Its not new in business, Ive worked for other companies that have done the same....they just managed to sell off enough assets to pay it all back before it became public knowledge. Not saying its right, just saying its rife.

In my opinon one of the biggest failings for the company was paying low wages. This resulted in a young design team, although they may have tried their best with the tools provided, still had little real world experience. And also the Production staff....where the staff turn around was crazy, to the point that one young lad would be teaching the new young lad based on the chinese whispers style training that he would have received a month or two before. This meant product knowledge suffered....and procedures were easily deviated from.
Paying better wages would have most probably resulted in more senior design engineers, and staff that hung around long enough to learn and build the bikes correctly. There was a whole plethora of fund draining problems, but imo those were two that really needed addressing for the business to succeed. But then again, I know sod all about business, I'm just a mechanic.

Actual company cars that I knew of...
A shagged out Range Rover Sport, used for going through the woods and around grounds, and probably worth around £2k.
A Range Rover Evoque, think that was around £8k....it was bought as a cheap crashed repaired car. The Range Rover SVR was leased. The Jag, Insignia and an old Focus were staff cars from the firework business.
Aston Martins were four of....a V550, which I had a soft spot for....the DBS, and two old Vanquish's.
Personal experiences of Stuart and Skinner, they were both very straight with me, and never pissed me off. I got to do some mega cool stuff and meet some mega cool people along the way. Not everyone had a good ride with it though, if you didnt stand out as being extra useful (I could repair the cars, that was my meal ticket I think) then you didnt get to do much beyond your job title. Many went to Norton expecting more, when in reality for the Production staff it was often weeks of being stood around bored, waiting for parts. No one seemed to have the gumption to actually go and ask for something to do though....instead they'd just pretend to be busy when ever SG or SS walked by. I hate clock watching my life away, so I use to go to other departments away from Engine Build, and ask if they needed a hand with anything. Did quite a bit of 961 frame prep prior to powdercoating, as it was a horrible job that no one wanted to do....made my day productive though.
I had no interest in staying with TVS, as working in a factory without windows sounds like hell to me.....and tbh I reckon HR would also see me as a project to work on. So as soon as they announced moving it all to Solihull, I quit and went back to the motortrade. It was some of the 961 owners and the NOC that wouldnt let me turn my back on the 961's though lol
But anyone who thinks it was a scam is a bit out of touch with the modern world. Nowadays, people can scam serious money from behind a computer screen in a weekend....not a ten year period with your face everywhere. SG was a bloody good salesman, no one can deny that.....he knew how to sell his product to the point that the government were desperate to buy into it. IMO everything was done for Norton, making Norton successful was always going to be the primary goal.....in knowing that Norton being successful would open other doors in life and living. This is the exact same reason that large Indian firms love to buy premium luxury brands....its a life style. People say the owner of TVS in a restaurant, and not many people pay attention.....say the owner of Norton Motorcycles, and people want that person on their table.
Click to expand...
All sounds very nouveau riche, in this case short term nouveau riche.
Reminds me of our own Conrad Black, although Connie is yours now after he cancelled his Canadian citizenship in order to become " Lord Black"
Investigation of missing funds found that he and the Missus spent $88,000 on " Summer drinks". That was one of the smaller finds.
Unlike Stuart, Connie did a bit of jail time in a White Collar prison.

Glen
 
Stu Bodycote said:
He obviously bought them to use himself...well...tbh I did more miles in them than him one year...but, they weren't bought in his name. If you had a business and could buy (on finance) a £180k asset for that business for £80k, you would.....stupid not to. Its all a lifestyle image that Norton was advertising and people were buying into. Same goes for the hotel and the Hall, and the Norton pram/push chair business etc....all assets. Without those, along with all the other assets, Norton wouldn't have had the various bank loans alongside the grants etc to keep it afloat for as long as it did.
The pension scheme was obviously a big fuck up....and totally inexcusable, no denying that one. Had everything been on target with the new model range etc etc, then those ten year, high risk high return pension schemes would have been repaid, and as someone mentioned previously, no one would have been the wiser. Its not new in business, Ive worked for other companies that have done the same....they just managed to sell off enough assets to pay it all back before it became public knowledge. Not saying its right, just saying its rife.

In my opinon one of the biggest failings for the company was paying low wages. This resulted in a young design team, although they may have tried their best with the tools provided, still had little real world experience. And also the Production staff....where the staff turn around was crazy, to the point that one young lad would be teaching the new young lad based on the chinese whispers style training that he would have received a month or two before. This meant product knowledge suffered....and procedures were easily deviated from.
Paying better wages would have most probably resulted in more senior design engineers, and staff that hung around long enough to learn and build the bikes correctly. There was a whole plethora of fund draining problems, but imo those were two that really needed addressing for the business to succeed. But then again, I know sod all about business, I'm just a mechanic.

Actual company cars that I knew of...
A shagged out Range Rover Sport, used for going through the woods and around grounds, and probably worth around £2k.
A Range Rover Evoque, think that was around £8k....it was bought as a cheap crashed repaired car. The Range Rover SVR was leased. The Jag, Insignia and an old Focus were staff cars from the firework business.
Aston Martins were four of....a V550, which I had a soft spot for....the DBS, and two old Vanquish's.
Personal experiences of Stuart and Skinner, they were both very straight with me, and never pissed me off. I got to do some mega cool stuff and meet some mega cool people along the way. Not everyone had a good ride with it though, if you didnt stand out as being extra useful (I could repair the cars, that was my meal ticket I think) then you didnt get to do much beyond your job title. Many went to Norton expecting more, when in reality for the Production staff it was often weeks of being stood around bored, waiting for parts. No one seemed to have the gumption to actually go and ask for something to do though....instead they'd just pretend to be busy when ever SG or SS walked by. I hate clock watching my life away, so I use to go to other departments away from Engine Build, and ask if they needed a hand with anything. Did quite a bit of 961 frame prep prior to powdercoating, as it was a horrible job that no one wanted to do....made my day productive though.
I had no interest in staying with TVS, as working in a factory without windows sounds like hell to me.....and tbh I reckon HR would also see me as a project to work on. So as soon as they announced moving it all to Solihull, I quit and went back to the motortrade. It was some of the 961 owners and the NOC that wouldnt let me turn my back on the 961's though lol
But anyone who thinks it was a scam is a bit out of touch with the modern world. Nowadays, people can scam serious money from behind a computer screen in a weekend....not a ten year period with your face everywhere. SG was a bloody good salesman, no one can deny that.....he knew how to sell his product to the point that the government were desperate to buy into it. IMO everything was done for Norton, making Norton successful was always going to be the primary goal.....in knowing that Norton being successful would open other doors in life and living. This is the exact same reason that large Indian firms love to buy premium luxury brands....its a life style. People say the owner of TVS in a restaurant, and not many people pay attention.....say the owner of Norton Motorcycles, and people want that person on their table.
Click to expand...
@Stu Bodycote Thanks for taking some time to provide a perspective from the personal experience you had. It's rare to get someone who has one, led alone will take the time to post it.
 
BikerBore said:
I see many references to 'Garner/SG Nortons' and I feel it reflects negatively on what is for many an excellent bike! I'd like to propose that they are known as 'Donington Nortons' going forward? I feel if owners start referring to their bikes as such, with time it will be what they're known as.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hey BB,

It would appear that others agree!

Let's not say SG Nortons
 
BikerBore said:
I see many references to 'Garner/SG Nortons' and I feel it reflects negatively on what is for many an excellent bike! I'd like to propose that they are known as 'Donington Nortons' going forward? I feel if owners start referring to their bikes as such, with time it will be what they're known as.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
While it sounds better, I'm thinking owners of TVS Nortons will fairly say calling the first ones "Gardner" Nortons will be apropos because it reflects the horrors that surround that bike, as opposed to what are likely to be timely delivered, correctly made, and correctly supported TVS Nortons.
 
grandpaul said:
While it sounds better, I'm thinking owners of TVS Nortons will fairly say calling the first ones "Gardner" Nortons will be apropos because it reflects the horrors that surround that bike, as opposed to what are likely to be timely delivered, correctly made, and correctly supported TVS Nortons.
Click to expand...
“……..the horrors that surround that bike”.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
 

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