Birmingham Norton Test Ride and Comparison.

BikerBore said:
All the bikes at the dealer I went to had the options fitted except for carbon pack. Think there was 2 silver sports, 2 black sports, one being the demo. They also had a cafe racer, but I was told they are not available until September. Price of a silver sport with carbon pack was £17,288.

I'm assuming when the existing dealer stocks with options already fitted are sold you'll have to start paying for the option as they'll be built to order.
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BB... i think if you order in July, they'll make you a new one with all the bits bar the carbon pack for the offer price.... mine is taking approx 5 weeks to be built and got through the sva test
 
961al said:
Paul (850 Commando) This is the one i test rode from Oakmere Cheshire dealer... and when i ordered they said it would be to the same spec as this one...they are saying the offer (for July only ) is £961 deposit contribution, £750 px allowance and £150 accessory allowance.... Birmingham Norton Test Ride and Comparison.
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BY the bye.... don't bother with the PX allowance... even the dealer said it was a waste of time- i enquired about trading in a 2023 23 plate Kawasaki Z900RS SE 70 miles from new, cost £13350 otr..... they offered £9250 INCLUDING the £750 allowance offer.. ha ha
 
961al said:
Paul (850 Commando) This is the one i test rode from Oakmere Cheshire dealer... and when i ordered they said it would be to the same spec as this one...they are saying the offer (for July only ) is £961 deposit contribution, £750 px allowance and £150 accessory allowance.... Birmingham Norton Test Ride and Comparison.
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Hi 961al , That's a good looker . Are you getting black wheels or silver ?
 
961al said:
I had a test ride on a TVS 961 about a month ago.... and was very impressed. The bike was showing 245 miles on the clock and ran brilliantly. The throttle, clutch and gearchange were all super smooth... handled brilliantly and fuelled perfectly around town... no problems with a dodgy tickover...Still the same noisy start up but the engine was much quieter than my old Garner 961 -still a little clattery but not as bad and also had a 'whirring' sound when revved at a standstill. The exhaust sounded good but not as good as my old one with a decat pipe. ( hope someone makes decat pipes for the new ones ). I loved it... so much so, i ordered one.... (oh dear:eek: ). And just to say that with the deal Norton have on at the moment, the paintwork stripes, black engine, polished cases and fancy seat are all included in the price... saving a fair bit of money if you prefer that stuff.
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Many congrats Al - hope that you get much pleasure from riding it, without the obvious frustrations!

For a man that likes a bitta-bling, I also really like the contrast between black and silver colouring on the beauty above.

”He who dies with the most toys wins”
 
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961al said:
BY the bye.... don't bother with the PX allowance... even the dealer said it was a waste of time- i enquired about trading in a 2023 23 plate Kawasaki Z900RS SE 70 miles from new, cost £13350 otr..... they offered £9250 INCLUDING the £750 allowance offer.. ha ha
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Hello 961al , Only 70 miles on the Kaw Z900RS total ?
 
Had a test ride of the new Norton 961CR on Saturday. Stu has covered the external differences well - when I rode it the weather was awful so didn't want to spend too much time outside just got on with the ride;

Ok first a few gems gleaned while at the factory. Yes contrary to recent claims Dr Bob says yes we can buy spares. And a water cooled Commando is on the cards for the overseas markets - a few engines are being tried. And every 961 build they have to pay royalties to the Chinese company Garner sold the rights to. And merchandise is going to be available at the factory soon and not at the current high London prices.

Soooooo it was very wet. And windy. I had 'as long as you like' but after an hour I had tried enough and was sooooo cold and wet.

Now bear in mind my 2017 euro4 CR has a non standard seat, straight through long pipes no cat modded injectors modded intake filters which give a boost in midrange.

In order of appearance; First the sidestand/ sidestand peg has been moved. Boooo. I get on with mine just fine although I know a lot don’t. And the seat feels thinner and harder. It starts just fine and sounds quite similar. Pull in the clutch and Ooooo that feels heavy. Into gear and......... is it in neutral? Oh no it's finally biting but it is just so very smooth and progressive way way different. So off we go.

On the move and the exhaust sounds really good. Sounds open but not too harsh - just right. The engine sounds very similar but the 'jack hammer', as it was so accurately described, is definitely muted. Still there but not enough to make an engineer grimace.

Pulls smoothly but doesn't seem to quite have my midrange but up to 3000rpm and oh-hello not dramatic but off we go. Pulling from 40(mph) in top it is vaguely interested but well if I must. In 4th from 40 it starts to move then picks up at 3-4k. In 3rd from 40 it pulls firmly and cleanly. At 3k-4k there is a little rattle like I hear on mine but very muted and pulls smoothly up to the rev limiter. The tacho is still lagging well behind the action btw.

Climbing out of Henley on a long drag of a climb at 3k in top it just holds it no problems so torque seems fine.

Back to the factory on purpose into traffic and that clutch which is so smooth and progressive is making my arm and shoulders hurt. Mine has uprated springs but these are harder. But no grabbing or screeching at all so that's great. To me it feels like they have introduced more slip to reduce dragging but stronger springs so once it's engaged it clamps up.

Oh and I didn’t really wish to say anything about them but in the wet the mirrors are vibrating and giving you a rear view looking like an early impressionist paining.

The offer to the end of July which gives you 'extras' like pinstriping comes out at approx £16000 on the road but that does not include the carbon pack:- Hugger chainguard and number plate support.

Now bear in mind that when mine had its cat and non-open pipes on the original map it was totally gutless whereas this is comparable with standard pipes and cat so I think that is rather good. From my perspective there is no option of a polished alloy pack - I could put up with the black barrels/casing but I do like my shiny bits. So really a good logical development of the 961. Lots of parts sorted and a warranty so if owning a Norton with loads of character which stops and handles really well is on your list- what's not to like?
 
Clive said:
Had a test ride of the new Norton 961CR on Saturday. Stu has covered the external differences well - when I rode it the weather was awful so didn't want to spend too much time outside just got on with the ride;

Ok first a few gems gleaned while at the factory. Yes contrary to recent claims Dr Bob says yes we can buy spares. And a water cooled Commando is on the cards for the overseas markets - a few engines are being tried. And every 961 build they have to pay royalties to the Chinese company Garner sold the rights to. And merchandise is going to be available at the factory soon and not at the current high London prices.

Soooooo it was very wet. And windy. I had 'as long as you like' but after an hour I had tried enough and was sooooo cold and wet.

Now bear in mind my 2017 euro4 CR has a non standard seat, straight through long pipes no cat modded injectors modded intake filters which give a boost in midrange.

In order of appearance; First the sidestand/ sidestand peg has been moved. Boooo. I get on with mine just fine although I know a lot don’t. And the seat feels thinner and harder. It starts just fine and sounds quite similar. Pull in the clutch and Ooooo that feels heavy. Into gear and......... is it in neutral? Oh no it's finally biting but it is just so very smooth and progressive way way different. So off we go.

On the move and the exhaust sounds really good. Sounds open but not too harsh - just right. The engine sounds very similar but the 'jack hammer', as it was so accurately described, is definitely muted. Still there but not enough to make an engineer grimace.

Pulls smoothly but doesn't seem to quite have my midrange but up to 3000rpm and oh-hello not dramatic but off we go. Pulling from 40(mph) in top it is vaguely interested but well if I must. In 4th from 40 it starts to move then picks up at 3-4k. In 3rd from 40 it pulls firmly and cleanly. At 3k-4k there is a little rattle like I hear on mine but very muted and pulls smoothly up to the rev limiter. The tacho is still lagging well behind the action btw.

Climbing out of Henley on a long drag of a climb at 3k in top it just holds it no problems so torque seems fine.

Back to the factory on purpose into traffic and that clutch which is so smooth and progressive is making my arm and shoulders hurt. Mine has uprated springs but these are harder. But no grabbing or screeching at all so that's great. To me it feels like they have introduced more slip to reduce dragging but stronger springs so once it's engaged it clamps up.

Oh and I didn’t really wish to say anything about them but in the wet the mirrors are vibrating and giving you a rear view looking like an early impressionist paining.

The offer to the end of July which gives you 'extras' like pinstriping comes out at approx £16000 on the road but that does not include the carbon pack:- Hugger chainguard and number plate support.

Now bear in mind that when mine had its cat and non-open pipes on the original map it was totally gutless whereas this is comparable with standard pipes and cat so I think that is rather good. From my perspective there is no option of a polished alloy pack - I could put up with the black barrels/casing but I do like my shiny bits. So really a good logical development of the 961. Lots of parts sorted and a warranty so if owning a Norton with loads of character which stops and handles really well is on your list- what's not to like?
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So keep the Donington 961 if one owns one? Or would you sell to buy a new TVS 961?
 
Clive said:
Had a test ride of the new Norton 961CR on Saturday. Stu has covered the external differences well - when I rode it the weather was awful so didn't want to spend too much time outside just got on with the ride;

Ok first a few gems gleaned while at the factory. Yes contrary to recent claims Dr Bob says yes we can buy spares. And a water cooled Commando is on the cards for the overseas markets - a few engines are being tried. And every 961 build they have to pay royalties to the Chinese company Garner sold the rights to. And merchandise is going to be available at the factory soon and not at the current high London prices.
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Clive, so from the weather report, seems you were riding a water cooled Command.
Did Dr Bob elaborate about the new water pumper Commando that's in the cards?

As far as having to pay royalties for each 961 built, flogging seems far too good a punishment for SG!
Maybe drawn and quartered by 4 961s? Yeah, that's the deal.
 
Clive said:
To me it feels like they have introduced more slip to reduce dragging but stronger springs so once it's engaged it clamps up.
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Clive- I really appreciate your write-up.

I would think they are compensating for the backlash noise, perhaps? We tried different springs and plates as well but got harsher results and little to no improvement in noise.

Also, it's interesting to note they didn't break down any royalty payments made in the financials, only incoming royalties.
 
961al said:
yes Tony... only just got it.. i wasn't planning on trading it in, it was used just to see what sort of deal they offered as a px - hopeless !
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Hello 961al , I thought you had your Z900RS before you sold your old 961 ? I remember you saying it was faster than the 961. I don't have the same problem over here , no TVS 961's in USA (yet) ?
 
Good write-up Clive and great to have confirmation from the ‘horses mouth’ about spares - there were some odd rumours still circulating on FB.

So no shared engine rights as we had pondered, SG really did grab that cash on his way out the door! Maybe one of the reasons why Norton is developing a water cooled version. New engine, no royalties.

Certainly didn’t see a water cooled version coming though - easier to meet Euro 5/homologation for export I guess? Their own engine, or shoehorning in another manufacturers? Might we be talking Triton? Nah, surely not! Very interesting development though, with room for yet more speculation if that were possible! 😄

Super-slow with the merch’ but looks like it’s on the way which is good; my T-shirt collection is getting a bit thin. Literally!

From your write up Clive (and others), it sounds like the re-engineered bike is the one that we bought, without the technical trials. It was always going to be though right - re-engineered not re-designed. Everything we loved about the bike minus what we didn’t, with a two year warranty in the pocket just in case. Longer term tests will tell the full picture of course, if any lingering technical issues may persist.

No doubt when the right people get their hands on it and start fettling there will be little, if any difference with a sorted Donington bike.
 
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TonyA said:
Hello 961al , I thought you had your Z900RS before you sold your old 961 ? I remember you saying it was faster than the 961. I don't have the same problem over here , no TVS 961's in USA (yet) ?
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Ha Ha yes Tony, i'm now on my third Z900RS lol... keep sellin em to try other bikes, but keep comin back to em... like a 961 i suppose ..:cool:
 
Well after hearing about poor trade-in offers I didn't ask about that for mine. I still have some issues - just about to replace sensors and hopefully Stu can take a look for me I think there may be a mechanical problem so I have reached the point where I just want to get back to the position where I can just get on the bike and ride so was pondering a new one. I am considering going back to just the one bike and much as I enjoy the others the 961 just presses all the buttons for me. Mine has now done 14000miles so sale value is not fantastic, and I would have to get the issues sorted to sell, then I would be looking to get bits on a new bike polished up so I am currently teetering. Once the engine is properly sorted I do still need to get that horrible clutch fixed one and for all. So as you can tell I have a few things to consider but either way I still want to have a 961 in the garage.

For the water-cooled option I was told that different engines were being looked at for the overseas markets so make of that what you will. Oh yes and apparently they have just taken delivery of a half million plus new CNC machine so there is still cash flowing into the company. There was a corner of the reception area which was supposed to be 'delivery room' but has turned into a storage area soon to be where Norton clothing and accessories are available. So that implies factory tours and visitor area. All in all sounds quite positive - I know we have been impatient but I do think things are coming together.
 
Clive said:
Well after hearing about poor trade-in offers I didn't ask about that for mine. I still have some issues - just about to replace sensors and hopefully Stu can take a look for me I think there may be a mechanical problem so I have reached the point where I just want to get back to the position where I can just get on the bike and ride so was pondering a new one. I am considering going back to just the one bike and much as I enjoy the others the 961 just presses all the buttons for me. Mine has now done 14000miles so sale value is not fantastic, and I would have to get the issues sorted to sell, then I would be looking to get bits on a new bike polished up so I am currently teetering. Once the engine is properly sorted I do still need to get that horrible clutch fixed one and for all. So as you can tell I have a few things to consider but either way I still want to have a 961 in the garage.

For the water-cooled option I was told that different engines were being looked at for the overseas markets so make of that what you will. Oh yes and apparently they have just taken delivery of a half million plus new CNC machine so there is still cash flowing into the company. There was a corner of the reception area which was supposed to be 'delivery room' but has turned into a storage area soon to be where Norton clothing and accessories are available. So that implies factory tours and visitor area. All in all sounds quite positive - I know we have been impatient but I do think things are coming together.
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Sounds like you’re pretty close to getting yours sorted Clive. Seems a little more time/money spent may be a smarter financially, noting likely 2nd hand price and the cost of a Birmingham replacement (with bling)! I guess if confidence in the machine is a factor though, then that might be worth the extra coin. Sure you’ll make a choice that you’re happy with. 👍
 
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When I bought mine (2018) I thought I was buying something over engineered and ‘built like a tank’.

I accepted that I might get issues with the peripheries like sensors and EFI etc so even ‘future proofed’ myself by buying some FCRs from Kenny Dreer. Somewhat ironically, my bike never suffered any of the often reported issues in this area.

But my bubble burst as I started to read and hear about more and more catastrophic mechanical failures, a feeling made worse by the dreadful noise emitting from my own primary area, what I can only describe as the sound of impending mechanical failure.

It became clear to me that this was not over engineered / built like tank, but was sadly something with quite a list of inherent engineering flaws / weaknesses.

I also own a lot of classic bikes, so the idea that my new bike may also have to be treated like an old classic, ie stripped and upgraded and re engineered, did not appeal to me. At all.

So, I fully understand the appeal of a new TVS 961. IF… and I mean IF… that list of engineering flaws has been addressed, then as SS said earlier, the new 961 is actually the 961 we all thought we were buying from SG.

If I had a 14,000 mile 961 that was showing various signs of mechanical failure, as Clive’s has, I would definitely consider a new 961 as a good move.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
When I bought mine (2018) I thought I was buying something over engineered and ‘built like a tank’.

I accepted that I might get issues with the peripheries like sensors and EFI etc so even ‘future proofed’ myself by buying some FCRs from Kenny Dreer. Somewhat ironically, my bike never suffered any of the often reported issues in this area.

But my bubble burst as I started to read and hear about more and more catastrophic mechanical failures, a feeling made worse by the dreadful noise emitting from my own primary area h oh I can only describe as the sound of impending mechanical failure.

It became clear to me that this was not over engineered / built like tank, but was sadly something with quite a list of inherent engineering flaws / weaknesses.

I also own a lot of classic bikes, so the idea that my new bike may also have to be treated like an old classic, ie stripped and upgraded and re engineered, did not appeal to me. At all.

So, I fully understand the appeal of a new TVS 961. IF… and I mean IF… that list of engineering flaws has been addressed, then as SS said earlier, the new 961 is actually the 961 we all thought we were buying from SG.

If I had a 14,000 mile 961 that was showing various signs of mechanical failure, as Clive’s has, I would definitely consider a new 961 as a good move.
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Get your point entirely FE, although the unknown seems to be the disparity in build/reliability - have ya got a Monday bike or a Friday one. Some having significant issues whilst others have virtually none - or maybe the ‘lucky’ ones just don’t have the mileage yet.

Think I’d be letting Stu have a good gander at it as a first port of call.
 

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