Layshaft bearing

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However I believe Hudson is talking about the development of the Commando whereas superblends, thicker case weren't evolved yet.

The Norton Commando Service Notes were compiled around 1979 by Tim Stevens and John Hudson so I'm not sure John was talking about development issues or things that as you say "weren't evolved yet" but seems to suggest these modifications were worthwhile for all Commando types.
 
quick mainshaft and layshaft bearing update:

Yesterday I changed the bearings in my tranny case: both originals were completely siezed and rusted. but I decided that marital harmony (as well as many tasty Holiday treats being made in the family oven) should win out over ease of bearing installation, so I went with the propane torch. After careful heating and one quick rap on the bench, old bearing popped out. I used a dremel to clean out the gunk behind the layshaft bearing and the reheated with the torch.

New bearing dropped right in with only a tiny bit of gentle persuasion with a 3/8" wooden dowel. so I'm putting the tranny back together probably this weekend. The basketcase is one step closer to being re-born!

thanks for your input, folks!

Karl Hoyt
 
Dragging out the dead horse for another good flogging....

L.A.B. said:
Mick Hemmings still recommends the FAG racing ball bearing which, according to him is 'the answer'. I bought one of these bearings from Mick some while ago and I haven't fitted it-yet (amusingly this FAG bearing is made in Portugal!).

L.A.B.
Do you have a part number for that FAG bearing available? I am trying to get the local bearing house to track it down; it would be easier with the part number.
I believe I have a SKF cross over number but I'll post it after I can check it against the FAG spec's.

Thanks,
 
Re: Dragging out the dead horse for another good flogging...

teeb said:
L.A.B.
Do you have a part number for that FAG bearing available? I am trying to get the local bearing house to track it down; it would be easier with the part number.
I believe I have a SKF cross over number but I'll post it after I can check it against the FAG spec's.

The FAG bearing as supplied by Mick Hemmings is a 6203TB.
 
I just put new 1st and 4th gears in my box from MH and took his recommendation on this bearing as I have a needle layshaft conversion from RGM which surprisingly Mick approved. I wanted to properly locate the layshaft as the roller allows the whole caboodle to move and needs careful shimming at the K/S. Full box part no is 6203TB.P63
FAG stock or p/n is 08020610. The 'Made in Portugal' amused me too!
 
Full box part no is 6203TB.P63
Yowza!!!! $132.99 at my bearing supplier!!! Hemmings catalog lists for 28.5 pounds. Are you sure this is the correct number?

Why does Mick recommend against the roller bearing?
 
Ron L said:
Full box part no is 6203TB.P63
Yowza!!!! $132.99 at my bearing supplier!!! Hemmings catalog lists for 28.5 pounds. Are you sure this is the correct number?

Why does Mick recommend against the roller bearing?


Mick's own words from his Gearbox Servicing NOC DVD as he discusses the layshaft bearings:

"...now, roller bearings are OK, but, what I don't like is that they can support vertically but they won't take any end load, and there's a lot of end-thrust on a gearbox -especially when you are pushing it into gear. The bearing that I prefer [showing the ball bearing] is a very very special ball bearing, I've been using this for twenty years, and it's been used by everybody from Wayne Gardner to Barry Sheene in all the six-speed gearboxes I build, and 'touch wood' we've never had a failure yet, so that is the bearing that I prefer to use...."

Mick goes on to say there's nothing wrong with using a ball bearing, just that the cages break up, and that is the reason he uses the special bearing with the (phenolic?) cage.
 
That's the one. Kept the box, its in front of me. It's fierce even at £29. If you have the std K/S bush everything is under some control but there is end play. With a needle conversion there is no longer a shoulder on the layshaft to bear on the K/S bush. That's why I changed over.
 
I'd like to agree with Mick. I've replaced one or two layshaft bearings and every single failure was caused by the cage breaking up. I've sent a couple to our labs and had it confirmed.
My own Commando is fitted with a roller bearing as it was available and I wasn't confident with any of the ball races I could source. The roller has never given me a problem (touch wood) cept I had to shim the k/start bush. It's nice to know there is a good ballrace out there.

Cash
 
I always replace the kickstart shaft bushing when replacing the layshaft bearing, and always thought the needle bearing idea had merit, although I have never done the conversion. My thought was that wear in the bush allowed the layshaft to cock slightly and cause failure of the ball bearing and sometimes the recess in the case.

I never considered the axial load and have always used the roller bearing. Now that I think about it, it makes sense. The flange on the bushing gives some axial control in one direction, but what controls movement in the opposite direction? Guess I might have to reconsider my choice of bearings. Lord knows Mick has a lot more experience with these than I.

I watched the Hudson video on gearbox rebuilding and was appalled that he completely ignored the kickstart bush. I haven't seen Mick Hemmings re-make, does he address this? Does he have a trick for removing the bushing?
 
Ron L said:
I watched the Hudson video on gearbox rebuilding and was appalled that he completely ignored the kickstart bush. I haven't seen Mick Hemmings re-make, does he address this? Does he have a trick for removing the bushing?

In the video Mick screws an "old tap" into the bush, he places the end of the screwed-in tap in a vice, he then knocks the shaft off the bush. He prefers to use no heat to do this.
He mentions that the layshaft can be used to press in the new bush and that a 'genuine' Norton bush should not require reaming after it is fitted.
 
lay bearing

I need to replace my lay bearing and found this reasonably priced ceramic bearing on line. Could you check it out and give some input.
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SMR6203C-ZZ TH9/C3 #3 Details
Item Information
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(Not Actual Product)

Part Number: SMR6203C-ZZ TH9/C3 #3
Product Type: Radial Bearings
Description: Stainless, Ceramic Hybrid, Shields, Polymite Retainer, ABEC #3, C3 Fit
List Price: $59.95
Your Price: $59.95
Sale Item: -
Qty. In Stock: 51

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Item Specifications
Bearing Material Stainless Steel 440C
Rolling Element Mat. Ceramic SI3N4
Dimension Type Metric
ID (d) 17
OD (D) 40
Width (B1) 12
Extended Width
Flange OD (D1)
Flange Width (Bf1)
Groove & Snap Ring
Enclosure # Two Shields
Enclosure Material Stainless Steel
Enclosure Type
Retainer Material Polymite Plastic
ABEC/ISO Rating ABEC#3/ISOP6
Radial Play C3
Lube Kluber L55 Grease
RPM Grease (x1000) 29
RPM Oil (x1000) 36
Dynamic Load (Kgf) 976
Basic Load (Kgf) 491
Weight (G)
:roll:
 
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